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>Measure the cost of services per acre/hectare of low-density and of high-density, then measure the revenues. You'll see which is net positive and which is net

>Measure the cost of services per acre/hectare of low-density and of high-density, then measure the revenues. You'll see which is net positive and which is net negative I have no interest in living in shoeboxes. > This is an accounting and ROI issue. Nope. Some just think quality of life isn’t about accounting and ROI. Do enjoy your shoebox though.

otterley 4y ago
Don’t be insulting and dismissive here. It’s against our community guidelines.
mattcwilson 4y ago
If you aren’t willing to look at the data, and are admitting you’re closed off to even considering the idea (“I have no interest”), how do you know your head isn’t fully in the sand, or that you’re not part of the problem?
throw0101a 4y ago
> I have no interest in living in shoeboxes. No need. See the concept of "streetcar suburbs" and how things used to be built pre-WW2: * https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+... * https://www.google.com/maps/place/125+Hampton+Ave,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/125+Hampton+Ave,+Toronto,+... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0 High(er) density does not mean Manhattan and Hong Kong levels of density. 50-100 people per hectare (Hamburg, Paris, Stockholm, London, Brussels) is not crazy high: * https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter4/environmental-footprint-of-transportation/urban-density-energy-consumption/ https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter4/environment... A video of what's available via a fifteen minute bicycle ride from Amsterdam: * https://twitter.com/notjustbikes/status/1528394830086275075 https://twitter.com/notjustbikes/status/1528394830086275075 See also: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO6txCZpbsQ&t=9m28s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO6txCZpbsQ&t=9m28s Fifteen minutes pedalling in one direction is downtown, fifteen minutes in the other is farm land. > Nope. Some just think quality of life isn’t about accounting and ROI. Do enjoy your shoebox though. * https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+O... * https://www.google.com/maps/place/20+Sparkhall+Ave,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/20+Sparkhall+Ave,+Toronto,... IMHO you have a myopic view of what "urban" means. Further, what will your quality of life be like if your municipality/county goes bankrupt: * https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2020/07/07/by-the-numbers-a-look-at-municipal-bankruptcies-over-the-past-20-years https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/... * https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=60740288 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=607402... Or if taxes need to be raised over and over to keep things in a state of good repair and other services suffer. A growing portion of your income could end up going to taxes with less left over to discretionary spending because the place you're living in made bad financial decisions.
enragedcacti 4y ago
> Some just think quality of life isn’t about accounting and ROI By disregarding the ROI, the implication is that other people need to live in the "shoeboxes" generating a surplus in order to fund your life choices. If you want to avoid being a freeloader feel free to calculate the long-term cost of your suburban lifestyle and donate it to your municipality, or move to a rural area on well-water, septic, solar, and dirt roads.

otterley 4y ago

Don’t be insulting and dismissive here. It’s against our community guidelines.

mattcwilson 4y ago

If you aren’t willing to look at the data, and are admitting you’re closed off to even considering the idea (“I have no interest”), how do you know your head isn’t fully in the sand, or that you’re not part of the problem?

throw0101a 4y ago

> I have no interest in living in shoeboxes. No need. See the concept of "streetcar suburbs" and how things used to be built pre-WW2: * https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/150+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+... * https://www.google.com/maps/place/125+Hampton+Ave,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/125+Hampton+Ave,+Toronto,+... * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcar_suburb * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0 High(er) density does not mean Manhattan and Hong Kong levels of density. 50-100 people per hectare (Hamburg, Paris, Stockholm, London, Brussels) is not crazy high: * https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter4/environmental-footprint-of-transportation/urban-density-energy-consumption/ https://transportgeography.org/contents/chapter4/environment... A video of what's available via a fifteen minute bicycle ride from Amsterdam: * https://twitter.com/notjustbikes/status/1528394830086275075 https://twitter.com/notjustbikes/status/1528394830086275075 See also: * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO6txCZpbsQ&t=9m28s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO6txCZpbsQ&t=9m28s Fifteen minutes pedalling in one direction is downtown, fifteen minutes in the other is farm land. > Nope. Some just think quality of life isn’t about accounting and ROI. Do enjoy your shoebox though. * https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/50+Geoffrey+St,+Toronto,+O... * https://www.google.com/maps/place/20+Sparkhall+Ave,+Toronto,+ON https://www.google.com/maps/place/20+Sparkhall+Ave,+Toronto,... IMHO you have a myopic view of what "urban" means. Further, what will your quality of life be like if your municipality/county goes bankrupt: * https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/2020/07/07/by-the-numbers-a-look-at-municipal-bankruptcies-over-the-past-20-years https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/articles/... * https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=60740288 https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=607402... Or if taxes need to be raised over and over to keep things in a state of good repair and other services suffer. A growing portion of your income could end up going to taxes with less left over to discretionary spending because the place you're living in made bad financial decisions.

enragedcacti 4y ago

> Some just think quality of life isn’t about accounting and ROI By disregarding the ROI, the implication is that other people need to live in the "shoeboxes" generating a surplus in order to fund your life choices. If you want to avoid being a freeloader feel free to calculate the long-term cost of your suburban lifestyle and donate it to your municipality, or move to a rural area on well-water, septic, solar, and dirt roads.