4 ms·

Yeah, I don't really know that much about refrigeration, but that's my take as well. If I had a choice, I'd just run all my stuff with propane, but I don't real

Yeah, I don't really know that much about refrigeration, but that's my take as well. If I had a choice, I'd just run all my stuff with propane, but I don't really know how feasible that is - could I just jury-rig up some hoses and go around charging things? Or are there parts of the system that won't abide by that? I believe the stated rationale against propane is flammability, but is that really that much of a concern? Presumably you aren't mixing oxygen and propane in the system, so basically you've just got propane lines circulating in your house/car. Big whoop, I've got methane lines in my house already, and the car has plenty of other flammable things too.

coryrc 4y ago
> but I don't really know how feasible that is Only if they run similar pressures. R-22 is basically the same pressure as R-290 (propane) but all the newer stuff is much higher. I think that means it ends up icing over really quick.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  A propane/isobutane blend is a good replacement for R-12 which was the refrigerant used for air-conditioning before CFCs were banned. Straight propane as you note is better for freezers than air conditioners. A problem with blended refrigerants is that if there is a slow leak the blend will change as the refrigerant leaks out, due to the different partial pressures. That makes recharging more difficult, you basically have to vacuum out the system and recharge with the correct mixture. Also, propane and isobutane are both flammable, but other than CO2, most refrigerants are to some degree.
  - Aloha 4y ago
    Some of them produce quite nasty byproducts when they burn too.
- coryrc 4y ago
  Err, my last statement refers to what I think happens if you replaced R410a with R290 without further changes.
darkspirit 4y ago
Background on refrigerants: The EU bans water-polluting unnatural refrigerants with a high global warming potential, but water-polluting unnatural refrigerants with low global warming potential (e.g. R1234yf) are unfortunately still permitted for the time being. Refrigerants from split heatpumps (everything that isn't R290/R744: https://danfoss.com/media/ic5drwy5/gwp-graphic-visual-1120x747px.jpg https://danfoss.com/media/ic5drwy5/gwp-graphic-visual-1120x7... ) endanger water. Federal Environmental Agency therefore urgently recommends natural refrigerants (R290=propane (monobloc, A+++), R744=CO2): https://twitter.com/Umweltbundesamt/status/1397461367716724736 https://twitter.com/Umweltbundesamt/status/13974613677167247... Please only buy climate&water-protecting heat pumps with natural refrigerants: Vaillant aroTHERM plus Viessmann Vitocal 151-A,150-A,250-A,252-A =============== Also please don't burn wood, it's even more harmful to people & environment than gas (#StopFakeRenewables): https://twitter.com/Umweltbundesamt/status/1491731154763923457 https://twitter.com/Umweltbundesamt/status/14917311547639234... =============== Use cases of natural refrigerants: - R290 (climate&water-protecting natural refrigerant propane) is perfect for heat pumps and other household devices: https://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/the-arotherm-plus-air-to-water-heat-pump-71360.html https://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/the-arotherm-... https://live.viessmann.com/en/product-innovations/heat-pump-vitocal.html https://live.viessmann.com/en/product-innovations/heat-pump-... https://www.swegon.com/uk/products/cooling-and-heating/air-cooled-chillers-and-heat-pumps/bluebox-titan-sky-r0/ https://www.swegon.com/uk/products/cooling-and-heating/air-c... https://amazon.de/Royal-Catering-Slush-Eis-Maschine-Arbeitszyklus-LED-Beleuchtung/dp/B07FFRB9CY https://amazon.de/Royal-Catering-Slush-Eis-Maschine-Arbeitsz... - Fridges often have R600a (climate&water-protecting natural refrigerant isobutane). - Carmakers like Volkswagen have switched to R744 (climate&water-protecting natural refrigerant CO2) or intend to.

coryrc 4y ago

> but I don't really know how feasible that is Only if they run similar pressures. R-22 is basically the same pressure as R-290 (propane) but all the newer stuff is much higher. I think that means it ends up icing over really quick.

SoftTalker 4y ago
A propane/isobutane blend is a good replacement for R-12 which was the refrigerant used for air-conditioning before CFCs were banned. Straight propane as you note is better for freezers than air conditioners. A problem with blended refrigerants is that if there is a slow leak the blend will change as the refrigerant leaks out, due to the different partial pressures. That makes recharging more difficult, you basically have to vacuum out the system and recharge with the correct mixture. Also, propane and isobutane are both flammable, but other than CO2, most refrigerants are to some degree.
- Aloha 4y ago
  Some of them produce quite nasty byproducts when they burn too.
coryrc 4y ago
Err, my last statement refers to what I think happens if you replaced R410a with R290 without further changes.

darkspirit 4y ago

Background on refrigerants: The EU bans water-polluting unnatural refrigerants with a high global warming potential, but water-polluting unnatural refrigerants with low global warming potential (e.g. R1234yf) are unfortunately still permitted for the time being. Refrigerants from split heatpumps (everything that isn't R290/R744: https://danfoss.com/media/ic5drwy5/gwp-graphic-visual-1120x747px.jpg https://danfoss.com/media/ic5drwy5/gwp-graphic-visual-1120x7... ) endanger water. Federal Environmental Agency therefore urgently recommends natural refrigerants (R290=propane (monobloc, A+++), R744=CO2): https://twitter.com/Umweltbundesamt/status/1397461367716724736 https://twitter.com/Umweltbundesamt/status/13974613677167247... Please only buy climate&water-protecting heat pumps with natural refrigerants: Vaillant aroTHERM plus Viessmann Vitocal 151-A,150-A,250-A,252-A =============== Also please don't burn wood, it's even more harmful to people & environment than gas (#StopFakeRenewables): https://twitter.com/Umweltbundesamt/status/1491731154763923457 https://twitter.com/Umweltbundesamt/status/14917311547639234... =============== Use cases of natural refrigerants: - R290 (climate&water-protecting natural refrigerant propane) is perfect for heat pumps and other household devices: https://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/the-arotherm-plus-air-to-water-heat-pump-71360.html https://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/the-arotherm-... https://live.viessmann.com/en/product-innovations/heat-pump-vitocal.html https://live.viessmann.com/en/product-innovations/heat-pump-... https://www.swegon.com/uk/products/cooling-and-heating/air-cooled-chillers-and-heat-pumps/bluebox-titan-sky-r0/ https://www.swegon.com/uk/products/cooling-and-heating/air-c... https://amazon.de/Royal-Catering-Slush-Eis-Maschine-Arbeitszyklus-LED-Beleuchtung/dp/B07FFRB9CY https://amazon.de/Royal-Catering-Slush-Eis-Maschine-Arbeitsz... - Fridges often have R600a (climate&water-protecting natural refrigerant isobutane). - Carmakers like Volkswagen have switched to R744 (climate&water-protecting natural refrigerant CO2) or intend to.