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> But you should need a batchelor degree if if you want to be a high level specialist, programmer or architect I'd like to ask, how are any of these specialtie

> But you should need a batchelor degree if if you want to be a high level specialist, programmer or architect I'd like to ask, how are any of these specialties technically related to a bachelors degree? One does not learn how to be a successful software architect in a semester or two of university. Neither does a bachelors degree make you anything more than a beginner in any specialized topic. While the definition of what's a "good" programmer is up for discussion, universities definitely do not produce them in any dependable capacity. From my personal experience, at this point in time, major part of the students that complete a bachelors degree are in it just because programming is viewed as a well paying job and are about as worthless as a person that completed a 6 month bootcamp. The only difference being that the person with bootcamp experience might actually end up with an exact match of knowledge an employer wants, which hasn't had time to slowly evaporate over 4 years of "study". Lastly to bring up another one of your points, I'd argue that learning from YouTube videos is not the same as going to a bootcamp. I do not view either highly, but I'd say that learning on your own deserves some level of commendation as it's the most crucial skill in a field that's constantly shifting and changing.

ethbr0 4y ago
There was an expression at my school, in response to exactly what you're questioning. "We train you for the last job you'll ever have, not the first." The intent of a well-rounded bachelor's education isn't to be able to walk through the JavaScript library du jour from memory, but to have at least a base level of understanding how everything adjacent to the thing you're doing works.
- oblio 4y ago
  > "We train you for the last job you'll ever have, not the first." That's a bit funny for Computer Science since, even though I don't have numbers, I expect the average graduate now to work until they're 65+, and the vast majority will probably be out of the field of direct software development by the time they're 45 (burnout, people management, program management, project management, executive suite, etc).
DeathArrow 4y ago
>One does not learn how to be a successful software architect in a semester or two of university. Neither does a bachelors degree make you anything more than a beginner in any specialized topic. That's entirely true. But if you din waste your time in school, you know fundamentals, you have the necessary background to proceed further and become good or excellent. > that learning on your own deserves some level of commendation as it's the most crucial skill in a field that's constantly shifting and changing I agree. You have to continously learn. But having a solid grasp of the fundamentals and understanding how things work will just help you on your path of future learning. In University you still learn by yourself, but under supervision.

ethbr0 4y ago

There was an expression at my school, in response to exactly what you're questioning. "We train you for the last job you'll ever have, not the first." The intent of a well-rounded bachelor's education isn't to be able to walk through the JavaScript library du jour from memory, but to have at least a base level of understanding how everything adjacent to the thing you're doing works.

oblio 4y ago
> "We train you for the last job you'll ever have, not the first." That's a bit funny for Computer Science since, even though I don't have numbers, I expect the average graduate now to work until they're 65+, and the vast majority will probably be out of the field of direct software development by the time they're 45 (burnout, people management, program management, project management, executive suite, etc).

DeathArrow 4y ago

>One does not learn how to be a successful software architect in a semester or two of university. Neither does a bachelors degree make you anything more than a beginner in any specialized topic. That's entirely true. But if you din waste your time in school, you know fundamentals, you have the necessary background to proceed further and become good or excellent. > that learning on your own deserves some level of commendation as it's the most crucial skill in a field that's constantly shifting and changing I agree. You have to continously learn. But having a solid grasp of the fundamentals and understanding how things work will just help you on your path of future learning. In University you still learn by yourself, but under supervision.