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SWE to lawyer here. The analogs of the traditional coding interview in the law school world are the LSAT and classroom timed memory tests. Both have absolutel
by jordanpg 4y ago
SWE to lawyer here.
The analogs of the traditional coding interview in the law school world are the LSAT and classroom timed memory tests. Both have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with being a lawyer or the kinds of activities that lawyers actually do.
What they are are intelligence tests. They are easy ways for judges and top tier law firms to tell if you are "one of them." You can get your foot in the door if you can perform, at a minimum, at a certain level. There are plenty of things you can do without 97+ percentile LSAT and A's in law school, but you are screened from the top echelon of work.
People object that this isn't fair and screens good people out -- false negatives. But experience has shown that it is effective and easy. Perhaps there is a better way, but this way seems to work well enough. There is little incentive, beyond some people complaining about it, to change a system that is working well.
I see the traditional leetcode interview in the same light. The point is to see if you can perform at a certain minimal level. Yes, it's arbitrary, and often unconnected to real life. But it is an effective way to gauge a minimum level of intelligence and competence. Not perfect, but easy and effective.
Finally, there is ego element to this. People who can perform at this level see these skills as a minimum qualification. They are uncomfortable seeing themselves in relation to others who cannot perform at this level. Knowing that their peers have similar minimum qualifications makes them feel safe and secure about their status. This is not a criticism, just an observation about human nature. People in a club need a shared identity.
- lapcat 4y ago> The analogs of the traditional coding interview in the law school world are the LSAT and classroom timed memory tests. How are these analogous? LSAT is the Law School Admission Test. It gets you into law school. It doesn't get you a job as a lawyer. (The bar exam doesn't get you a job as a lawyer either.) And you only have to take it once, not for every job interview.
- jordanpg 4y agoFair enough; it's not a perfect analogy. The main point is the nature of the metrics. Getting into law school is the first part of the "interview." If you don't have the LSAT score, you won't get into a prestigious law school, full stop. If you aren't in a prestigious school, then a huge swath of elite positions are permanently closed to you. (In general -- yes there are a sprinkling of exceptions.) The bar exam has nothing to do with it -- everyone has to pass that, no matter what you do. The second part of the interview is law school grades and certain extra curricular signals. You're right, there is only one "interview." But the analogy still holds up, with respect to the nature of the intelligence and memory tests.
- gedy 4y agoGreat analogy. I think the rub is I wouldn't want to study for and take the LSAT before every interview, and especially not after working in the field for 10 or more years. Especially if the interviewers make comments like "um how much do you actually practice law?" if you stumble on one of their pet quiz questions.
- Apocryphon 4y agoWhat was your journey from engineer to lawyer like?
- Cd00d 4y agoAren't those one time things that define the future of your career? Sort of a pedigree being established? You can go to a top tier university, land a great job for several years, have positive references, and still be required to do leet code for a recruiter... that seems like ongoing gatekeeping, rather than a one-time effort/pass.
- mountainriver 4y agoSure but I can get a much better gauge of intelligence from OSS. I’ve seen some of the worst developers I know beat Leetcode because it’s really just memorization not actual intelligence