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> Feels like the whole "German efficiency" trope is mostly a meme Yeah it's really false, Germany is painfully bureaucratic, ceremonial and slow and dysfunctio

by jseban 4y ago

> Feels like the whole "German efficiency" trope is mostly a meme Yeah it's really false, Germany is painfully bureaucratic, ceremonial and slow and dysfunctional, compared to other leading western nations. German engineering, and german manufacturing, are really what deserves to have good reputation.

lispm 4y ago
If one compares Germany with the France, Poland, Italy or UK, then Germany is a haven of stability. There must be something good to this 'slowness'.
- jseban 4y ago
  Sure, but then the reputation should be "German stability" and not efficiency.
  - lispm 4y ago
    Yeah, but stability is important. Take the recent federal elections. Germany moved without any pain from a CDU/CSU/SPD to a three party government (SPD/Greens/FDP). No complaints about the election system, besides a too large Bundestag. Compare that to the US elections Biden/Trump: massive problems with the voting system: real and made up. The Germans voted on paper. -> There was an undisputed result.
- mathverse 4y ago
  Does not feel like stability but instead maintaining status quo.
- inglor_cz 4y ago
  There is a fine line dividing stability and stagnation. For example, the Poles are much better at building apartments and transport infrastructure fast than anyone else on your list, including Germany.
  - lispm 4y ago
    > For example, the Poles are much better at building apartments and transport infrastructure fast than anyone else on your list, including Germany. Is it that they are 'much better' or the economy is in different stages? The housing market in Germany is much more expensive. It's much cheaper to build in Poland. Germany already has a larger transport infrastructure. Example: Autobahn 13000 km in Germany vs. roughly 2000km in Poland.
    - inglor_cz 4y ago
      So let us look at a more comparable pair. Czech and Polish economies are fairly comparable, but Czech ability to build anything is in tatters. We are a NIMBY paradise, every modest block of flats takes a decade to approve. Our northern neighbours aren't, they build fast.
  - Bayart 4y ago
    Poland was a post-Communist rust bucket a short time ago. It's easier to grow and leapfrog when you're starting low. Britain, France and Germany have a lot of inertia.

by jseban 4y ago

lispm 4y ago

If one compares Germany with the France, Poland, Italy or UK, then Germany is a haven of stability. There must be something good to this 'slowness'.

jseban 4y ago
Sure, but then the reputation should be "German stability" and not efficiency.
- lispm 4y ago
  Yeah, but stability is important. Take the recent federal elections. Germany moved without any pain from a CDU/CSU/SPD to a three party government (SPD/Greens/FDP). No complaints about the election system, besides a too large Bundestag. Compare that to the US elections Biden/Trump: massive problems with the voting system: real and made up. The Germans voted on paper. -> There was an undisputed result.
mathverse 4y ago
Does not feel like stability but instead maintaining status quo.
inglor_cz 4y ago
There is a fine line dividing stability and stagnation. For example, the Poles are much better at building apartments and transport infrastructure fast than anyone else on your list, including Germany.
- lispm 4y ago
  > For example, the Poles are much better at building apartments and transport infrastructure fast than anyone else on your list, including Germany. Is it that they are 'much better' or the economy is in different stages? The housing market in Germany is much more expensive. It's much cheaper to build in Poland. Germany already has a larger transport infrastructure. Example: Autobahn 13000 km in Germany vs. roughly 2000km in Poland.
  - inglor_cz 4y ago
    So let us look at a more comparable pair. Czech and Polish economies are fairly comparable, but Czech ability to build anything is in tatters. We are a NIMBY paradise, every modest block of flats takes a decade to approve. Our northern neighbours aren't, they build fast.
- Bayart 4y ago
  Poland was a post-Communist rust bucket a short time ago. It's easier to grow and leapfrog when you're starting low. Britain, France and Germany have a lot of inertia.