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Not everyone can work in a train because not every job is suitable for that. If all you want is to get from point A to point B and you are not paid for that, th

Not everyone can work in a train because not every job is suitable for that. If all you want is to get from point A to point B and you are not paid for that, the extra time is a burden. Another con is this scenario: you need to go from Berlin to Paris for an activity that takes 2-3 hours (ex: paperwork that requires your presence on site or a very important meeting). With a plane you fly in, do the thing and fly out same day. With the train, you spend 2 days. I had to do this a lot 20 years ago between Bucharest, Romania, and Sofia, Bulgaria; about 370km, no highway, inconvenient flight times, train took ~ 6 hours each direction etc. I was driving there and back, 4 hours door to door each direction, the gas was a lot cheaper than the hotel and sometimes traveling 2-5 people in a car. Double the distance and the plane is the attractive option vs train.

eesmith 4y ago
To give some more concrete numbers, I estimated the time from Google's office in Berlin (Tucholskystraße 2, 10117 Berlin, Germany) to Google's office in Paris (8 Rue de Londres, 75009 Paris, France). Option 1 (plane + taxi) - taxi to BER (45m), check-in/security/wait (1h), BER-CDG flight 1h45m, exit (20m), taxi to the Paris office (1h) = about 5 hours. Option 2 (plane + bus) - bus in Berlin takes 50 minutes, in Paris takes 1 hour, so about the same, but I'll add about 30 minutes because the schedules might not mesh so well = about 5.5 hours. Option 2 (train) - taxi to Berlin Hbf (6m) or walk (25m), train to Gare de l'Est (7 hours), taxi (13m) or walk (28m) to the Paris office = about 7.5 hours. Agreed, 5 extra hours makes a same-day visit tougher (10 hours of travel vs 15). Plus, to start there's only one day-time direct train route, while there are more flight options.
- Symbiote 4y ago
  You're much more likely to be able to do useful work on the uninterrupted 7 hour train journey, compared to all the 1-hour bits of the plane journey. There will presumably be free Wi-Fi and power sockets. You'll be interrupted once to show your ticket, that's all.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    I agree with AdrianB1 that I can think of cases where someone will want to do same-day Berlin->Paris->Berlin trip. The ~5 hour total time savings by flight vs. train (assuming a frequent enough service) might be worth being less productive while on the trip. If I really need to be present at this "very important" 3 hour meeting in Paris then the best option might be to rent a meeting room at CDG. Then it's a 2 hour flight, 3 hour meeting, and 2 hour flight home - plus transit time in Berlin and going through security at CDG so call it another 3 hours = 10 hours total. While it's a minimum of 17 hours by train.
  - majewsky 4y ago
    Nitpick, on such a long train ride, you will usually have multiple ticket checks because the crew will have a shift change inbetween. Train staff, unlike airplane staff, usually return home after every shift. After having been on the train for 3 hours or so, they will get off, have their break, then go back on the same line to their home base.
- AdrianB1 4y ago
  I agree there are good use cases. At the same time I notice you have an amazing saving on connections (from 1h 45 min to airport to 19 minutes, saving 1 h 22 minutes) that is not there for most people. I consider Berlin-Paris customers to be people "around Berlin area" and "towards Paris area", that would negate the connection part. To be very transparent: I dislike commercial planes. I worked several years in a large airport and I hate the airport experience (cannot disclose any details, but it is very ineffective); I hate the seats in the plane because I am tall and leg room is inadequate. I dislike sitting uncomfortably for hours and I dislike the sound pollution. At the same time I am a sport pilot and I am flying less and less, mostly because the seat (even more uncomfortable) and noise. But I am trying to be realistic when choosing train versus plane, beyond some distance the plane is much better.
  - eesmith 4y ago
    > good use cases To be clear, I'm saying that for your example there are clear reasons to go by plane, starting with there are currently only going to be one or two train trips per day. > that is not there for most people Certainly. But you were talking about people who would fly from Berlin to Paris for an activity that takes 2-3 hours and fly back on the same day. That's not most people either. Where do they live? BER is in the southern part of the city, which means that for at least half the population it's easier to get to Berlin Hbf than the airport. From Spandau, 18 minutes to the Hbf, plus the walking time to the station. By car, "typically 30-45 minutes" to BER. (This is for leaving home around 5.30am, expecting to get to Paris in mid-morning.) From Pottsdam and Hoppegarten, the times to Hbf is about 37 min. and "typically 35-50 min" by car to BER. That supports my assumption that over 1/2 the population finds it easier to get to the train station than the airport. Google Maps says the expected mass transit time from Gare d'Est to Vincennes is about 25 minutes, while the driving time from CDG to Vincennes is "typically 45 min to 1 hr 15 min." As a further complication, you earlier wrote "and you are not paid for that". I assumed someone was willing to pay for the taxis, for a quicker trip, and accepting as a given they weren't paying for your time, though I think that's odd.

eesmith 4y ago

To give some more concrete numbers, I estimated the time from Google's office in Berlin (Tucholskystraße 2, 10117 Berlin, Germany) to Google's office in Paris (8 Rue de Londres, 75009 Paris, France). Option 1 (plane + taxi) - taxi to BER (45m), check-in/security/wait (1h), BER-CDG flight 1h45m, exit (20m), taxi to the Paris office (1h) = about 5 hours. Option 2 (plane + bus) - bus in Berlin takes 50 minutes, in Paris takes 1 hour, so about the same, but I'll add about 30 minutes because the schedules might not mesh so well = about 5.5 hours. Option 2 (train) - taxi to Berlin Hbf (6m) or walk (25m), train to Gare de l'Est (7 hours), taxi (13m) or walk (28m) to the Paris office = about 7.5 hours. Agreed, 5 extra hours makes a same-day visit tougher (10 hours of travel vs 15). Plus, to start there's only one day-time direct train route, while there are more flight options.

Symbiote 4y ago
You're much more likely to be able to do useful work on the uninterrupted 7 hour train journey, compared to all the 1-hour bits of the plane journey. There will presumably be free Wi-Fi and power sockets. You'll be interrupted once to show your ticket, that's all.
- eesmith 4y ago
  I agree with AdrianB1 that I can think of cases where someone will want to do same-day Berlin->Paris->Berlin trip. The ~5 hour total time savings by flight vs. train (assuming a frequent enough service) might be worth being less productive while on the trip. If I really need to be present at this "very important" 3 hour meeting in Paris then the best option might be to rent a meeting room at CDG. Then it's a 2 hour flight, 3 hour meeting, and 2 hour flight home - plus transit time in Berlin and going through security at CDG so call it another 3 hours = 10 hours total. While it's a minimum of 17 hours by train.
- majewsky 4y ago
  Nitpick, on such a long train ride, you will usually have multiple ticket checks because the crew will have a shift change inbetween. Train staff, unlike airplane staff, usually return home after every shift. After having been on the train for 3 hours or so, they will get off, have their break, then go back on the same line to their home base.
AdrianB1 4y ago
I agree there are good use cases. At the same time I notice you have an amazing saving on connections (from 1h 45 min to airport to 19 minutes, saving 1 h 22 minutes) that is not there for most people. I consider Berlin-Paris customers to be people "around Berlin area" and "towards Paris area", that would negate the connection part. To be very transparent: I dislike commercial planes. I worked several years in a large airport and I hate the airport experience (cannot disclose any details, but it is very ineffective); I hate the seats in the plane because I am tall and leg room is inadequate. I dislike sitting uncomfortably for hours and I dislike the sound pollution. At the same time I am a sport pilot and I am flying less and less, mostly because the seat (even more uncomfortable) and noise. But I am trying to be realistic when choosing train versus plane, beyond some distance the plane is much better.
- eesmith 4y ago
  > good use cases To be clear, I'm saying that for your example there are clear reasons to go by plane, starting with there are currently only going to be one or two train trips per day. > that is not there for most people Certainly. But you were talking about people who would fly from Berlin to Paris for an activity that takes 2-3 hours and fly back on the same day. That's not most people either. Where do they live? BER is in the southern part of the city, which means that for at least half the population it's easier to get to Berlin Hbf than the airport. From Spandau, 18 minutes to the Hbf, plus the walking time to the station. By car, "typically 30-45 minutes" to BER. (This is for leaving home around 5.30am, expecting to get to Paris in mid-morning.) From Pottsdam and Hoppegarten, the times to Hbf is about 37 min. and "typically 35-50 min" by car to BER. That supports my assumption that over 1/2 the population finds it easier to get to the train station than the airport. Google Maps says the expected mass transit time from Gare d'Est to Vincennes is about 25 minutes, while the driving time from CDG to Vincennes is "typically 45 min to 1 hr 15 min." As a further complication, you earlier wrote "and you are not paid for that". I assumed someone was willing to pay for the taxis, for a quicker trip, and accepting as a given they weren't paying for your time, though I think that's odd.