4 ms·

Maybe this is a little unempathetic, but isn’t weight pretty much something that’s entirely in your control? As opposed to something like your height for exampl

Maybe this is a little unempathetic, but isn’t weight pretty much something that’s entirely in your control? As opposed to something like your height for example. Incel culture focuses a lot on height / unalterable genetics, which I can at least somewhat understand, but weight just doesn’t seem to have the same level of impact. I don’t know, I could be totally wrong here. Would love to hear differing opinions.

gjm11 4y ago
It depends on what you mean by "in your control". Obviously (1) you choose what to eat and (2) if you eat little enough then you will get thin, and if you eat enough then you will get fat. (But also: (a') you choose what to do and (2') if you never do anything that violates your values then you will be some sort of saint. But most people are not any sort of saint: we sometimes do hurtful things even though we think we shouldn't, or stay up later than is good for us, etc.) But our bodies and brains are evolution-designed to make very sure we don't accidentally starve to death. So we feel hunger, and hunger is very difficult for us to ignore. And if something is miscalibrated so that the level of calorie intake at which you stop feeling hungry is enough to make you fat, then you will either get fat or feel constantly hungry. And even if nothing is miscalibrated in that particular way, human brains are annoyingly good at acquiring habits that are difficult to break even when they are bad for us. All of which means that while anyone can in principle keep themselves neither too thin nor too fat, according to whatever standards they find appropriate for that, doing so is much much more difficult for some people than for others, and if a thing is difficult enough to do and requires doing all the time I think it is no longer reasonable to say that doing or not doing it is "entirely in your control".
015UUZn8aEvW 4y ago
Define "in your control". Research finds over and over again that genetics plays a major role in BMI and that upbringing plays little or no role. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2012.00029/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2012.0002... One way to think about it is that certain behaviors are more controllable in the short term than in the long term. An extreme example would be breathing, which, like eating behavior, the brain subconsciously regulates by default. You can override the default and intake substantially more or less oxygen for a while. In the end, though, you will revert to to subconscious regulation and your blood oxygen level will revert to the level where your brain wants it to be. Eating behavior seems to work in a similar way, although the timeline is much longer and the cues are more subtle.
SyzygistSix 4y ago
I would read/watch about the fitness coaches who volunteered to eat poorly and gain weight to experience what their clients went through. They were all very surprised that despite knowing how to eat and exercise well and effectively how much their willpower flagged, how difficult hunger was to address, and how much more difficult it was to lose the weight than they expected. Calories in/calories out is simple, but not easy. People who feel hungry fail at maintaining their diets long term. We do not have less willpower or discipline than people in the 1970s, yet so many people are overweight now. Even wealthy people with serious resources remain overweight. This points to a systemic problem, not merely personal failing.
- lawrenceyan 4y ago
  > I would read/watch about the fitness coaches who volunteered to eat poorly and gain weight to experience what their clients went through. Hmm this is a fair point. Anecdotally, do you know the percentage of fitness coaches that weren’t able to get rid of their increased weight? I have the unreasonable inclination to try this for myself in order to experience what it’s like.
  - SyzygistSix 4y ago
    All the ones I read about were. It was just much more difficult than they expected. And they are generally in great positions to do so. Most of their clients, and those who can't afford to be their clients, not so much.
michaelbrave 4y ago
it's one of those it's complicated answers. For example preventing the initial weight gain is mostly in one's control but once already overweight it's closer to doing physical therapy for an injury. The hormonal and Neurochemical sensors/pathways are out of sync (insulin resistance, high inflamation, leptin resistance to name a few), and in mice models those changes never go away even after having lost the weight, so I don't want to go so far as say that being fat causes brain damage, but there are negative changes that come from having ever been overweight. We are finding out more about this every year, less than 10 years ago we discovered that fat cells produce hormones and aren't just storage containers, since then we have found about 5 other hormones of which some act as neurotransmitters that are also produced by fat cells, which would have been unbelievable pre 2010. Most weight loss has more to do with hormone triggering than calories, but the main way to trigger those hormones is in fact diet and exercise, but it begs the questions; what kinds of diets and what kinds of exercise and what other things can affect this (things like time of day, fasted state, timing of exercise to eating, macro nutrients etc). Also most people who are overweight or who overeat it's hard to tell how much is due to something like poverty and how much is due to poor emotional regulation, as it's been shown those are higher leading causes of obesity than merely overreating or being lazy.
biohax2015 4y ago
It’s “in your control” the same way that a heroin user is “in control” of the needle they inject into their veins. Interestingly, many of the same neurological pathways are overactive in drug users and in obese people.
codegrappler 4y ago
I’m learning to become more empathetic to people with naturally low metabolisms and thyroid issues. I know a young girl that went from being very slim to noticeably overweight once she developed a thyroid issue. Feed two people a standard American diet and you could end up with substantially different weight outcomes.

gjm11 4y ago

It depends on what you mean by "in your control". Obviously (1) you choose what to eat and (2) if you eat little enough then you will get thin, and if you eat enough then you will get fat. (But also: (a') you choose what to do and (2') if you never do anything that violates your values then you will be some sort of saint. But most people are not any sort of saint: we sometimes do hurtful things even though we think we shouldn't, or stay up later than is good for us, etc.) But our bodies and brains are evolution-designed to make very sure we don't accidentally starve to death. So we feel hunger, and hunger is very difficult for us to ignore. And if something is miscalibrated so that the level of calorie intake at which you stop feeling hungry is enough to make you fat, then you will either get fat or feel constantly hungry. And even if nothing is miscalibrated in that particular way, human brains are annoyingly good at acquiring habits that are difficult to break even when they are bad for us. All of which means that while anyone can in principle keep themselves neither too thin nor too fat, according to whatever standards they find appropriate for that, doing so is much much more difficult for some people than for others, and if a thing is difficult enough to do and requires doing all the time I think it is no longer reasonable to say that doing or not doing it is "entirely in your control".

015UUZn8aEvW 4y ago

Define "in your control". Research finds over and over again that genetics plays a major role in BMI and that upbringing plays little or no role. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2012.00029/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fendo.2012.0002... One way to think about it is that certain behaviors are more controllable in the short term than in the long term. An extreme example would be breathing, which, like eating behavior, the brain subconsciously regulates by default. You can override the default and intake substantially more or less oxygen for a while. In the end, though, you will revert to to subconscious regulation and your blood oxygen level will revert to the level where your brain wants it to be. Eating behavior seems to work in a similar way, although the timeline is much longer and the cues are more subtle.

SyzygistSix 4y ago

I would read/watch about the fitness coaches who volunteered to eat poorly and gain weight to experience what their clients went through. They were all very surprised that despite knowing how to eat and exercise well and effectively how much their willpower flagged, how difficult hunger was to address, and how much more difficult it was to lose the weight than they expected. Calories in/calories out is simple, but not easy. People who feel hungry fail at maintaining their diets long term. We do not have less willpower or discipline than people in the 1970s, yet so many people are overweight now. Even wealthy people with serious resources remain overweight. This points to a systemic problem, not merely personal failing.

lawrenceyan 4y ago
> I would read/watch about the fitness coaches who volunteered to eat poorly and gain weight to experience what their clients went through. Hmm this is a fair point. Anecdotally, do you know the percentage of fitness coaches that weren’t able to get rid of their increased weight? I have the unreasonable inclination to try this for myself in order to experience what it’s like.
- SyzygistSix 4y ago
  All the ones I read about were. It was just much more difficult than they expected. And they are generally in great positions to do so. Most of their clients, and those who can't afford to be their clients, not so much.

michaelbrave 4y ago

it's one of those it's complicated answers. For example preventing the initial weight gain is mostly in one's control but once already overweight it's closer to doing physical therapy for an injury. The hormonal and Neurochemical sensors/pathways are out of sync (insulin resistance, high inflamation, leptin resistance to name a few), and in mice models those changes never go away even after having lost the weight, so I don't want to go so far as say that being fat causes brain damage, but there are negative changes that come from having ever been overweight. We are finding out more about this every year, less than 10 years ago we discovered that fat cells produce hormones and aren't just storage containers, since then we have found about 5 other hormones of which some act as neurotransmitters that are also produced by fat cells, which would have been unbelievable pre 2010. Most weight loss has more to do with hormone triggering than calories, but the main way to trigger those hormones is in fact diet and exercise, but it begs the questions; what kinds of diets and what kinds of exercise and what other things can affect this (things like time of day, fasted state, timing of exercise to eating, macro nutrients etc). Also most people who are overweight or who overeat it's hard to tell how much is due to something like poverty and how much is due to poor emotional regulation, as it's been shown those are higher leading causes of obesity than merely overreating or being lazy.

biohax2015 4y ago

It’s “in your control” the same way that a heroin user is “in control” of the needle they inject into their veins. Interestingly, many of the same neurological pathways are overactive in drug users and in obese people.

codegrappler 4y ago

I’m learning to become more empathetic to people with naturally low metabolisms and thyroid issues. I know a young girl that went from being very slim to noticeably overweight once she developed a thyroid issue. Feed two people a standard American diet and you could end up with substantially different weight outcomes.