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Curious would you go to a surgeon who said he has his friend do all his brain surgeries? His friend might be out of town when yours is scheduled. Of course we

Curious would you go to a surgeon who said he has his friend do all his brain surgeries? His friend might be out of town when yours is scheduled. Of course we rely on others for stuff. But you don’t take a math class to simply say “I’ll just skip the classes and have my neighbor take my tests. My goal is to learn as little as possible.” Why even take the class then?

rini17 4y ago
This thread is about engineers not surgeons. And it happens all the time when an engineer does not feel competent for certain problem, they ask friends for help. Would you ban such practice or what?
- kortilla 4y ago
  I sure as fuck wouldn’t want an engineer responsible for anything important if they cheated. The problem with engineering is that if you cheated through the fundamentals, you won’t even recognize when to ask for help. You’ll just build build something shitty or (depending on the field) sign off on something that puts people’s lives at risk because you missed fundamental flaws.
kqr 4y ago
I'd much, much rather have the surgeon who asks a colleague for a second opinion when they are unsure, rather than just going ahead on the wrong assumption because "otherwise I would be cheating". In fact, the medical profession has practically adopted cheating as a formal practise: they call it grand rounds and it consists of sharing "answers to exam questions" (outcome of patient care) with their colleagues, so they don't have to go through the effort of discovering them on their own.
- renlo 4y ago
  In this case, the surgeon isn’t conferring with a colleague; the surgeon is wholly unable to perform the operation. Collaboration is not cheating. A WhatsApp group used to collaborate on simple assignments or complicated projects is one thing, wholesale copying multiple choice answers or plagiarizing whole essays or projects is something completely different.
  - kqr 4y ago
    Even so, if my surgeon for whatever reason signed up to do an operation they are unable to perform, I would rather they ask their colleague to step in than charge ahead to avoid accusations of cheating. I suspect you aren't trying to argue about this situation, though. I think you're asking about comparing the performance of the student who does know the material well, and the student who needs assistance with it. The answer is not to forbid assistance, it's to design tests where assistance becomes obvious.
    - renlo 4y ago
      edit: looking back at the thread here, I see now that we're arguing over semantics I think. To me, "relying on someone" means that they are incapable of doing it themselves. It seems your definition of "relying on someone" means to get help from someone. If so, I agree, if someone needs to get help from others that's fine. If they are completely dependent on the other person being there (my definition of "rely on"), then the surgeon is incapable of doing the surgery if their friend isn't there.

rini17 4y ago

This thread is about engineers not surgeons. And it happens all the time when an engineer does not feel competent for certain problem, they ask friends for help. Would you ban such practice or what?

kortilla 4y ago
I sure as fuck wouldn’t want an engineer responsible for anything important if they cheated. The problem with engineering is that if you cheated through the fundamentals, you won’t even recognize when to ask for help. You’ll just build build something shitty or (depending on the field) sign off on something that puts people’s lives at risk because you missed fundamental flaws.

kqr 4y ago

I'd much, much rather have the surgeon who asks a colleague for a second opinion when they are unsure, rather than just going ahead on the wrong assumption because "otherwise I would be cheating". In fact, the medical profession has practically adopted cheating as a formal practise: they call it grand rounds and it consists of sharing "answers to exam questions" (outcome of patient care) with their colleagues, so they don't have to go through the effort of discovering them on their own.

renlo 4y ago
In this case, the surgeon isn’t conferring with a colleague; the surgeon is wholly unable to perform the operation. Collaboration is not cheating. A WhatsApp group used to collaborate on simple assignments or complicated projects is one thing, wholesale copying multiple choice answers or plagiarizing whole essays or projects is something completely different.
- kqr 4y ago
  Even so, if my surgeon for whatever reason signed up to do an operation they are unable to perform, I would rather they ask their colleague to step in than charge ahead to avoid accusations of cheating. I suspect you aren't trying to argue about this situation, though. I think you're asking about comparing the performance of the student who does know the material well, and the student who needs assistance with it. The answer is not to forbid assistance, it's to design tests where assistance becomes obvious.
  - renlo 4y ago
    edit: looking back at the thread here, I see now that we're arguing over semantics I think. To me, "relying on someone" means that they are incapable of doing it themselves. It seems your definition of "relying on someone" means to get help from someone. If so, I agree, if someone needs to get help from others that's fine. If they are completely dependent on the other person being there (my definition of "rely on"), then the surgeon is incapable of doing the surgery if their friend isn't there.