5 ms·

It's is also easy to bullshit a coding interview. The problems solved at interviews are just too small to verify code organization skills.

koonsolo 4y ago
I suppose you never did any interviews yourself. You can't imagine how many people can't even do or know the basics.
- ipaddr 4y ago
  Yet they are able to do the job. Something doesn't lineup with your testing methods vs outcome. If these people are finding work elsewhere and doing productive work for years what does it say about your process?
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    Do you think they are looking for a job because they were fired somewhere else? Or do you think companies never fire people? We already fired plenty of people that we hired. So yes, our hiring process is not perfect. But if you're a JavaScript developer and can't explain the difference between var, let and const, I'm not going to hire you. If you claim these people are great developers, you are free to hire them. Let me know the details of your company. Whenever we find a candidate that doesn't satisfy our requirements (which is around 90% of them), I'll send them to you so you can hire them.
    - pkolaczk 4y ago
      I've never said you should hire people who can't tell var from const. I've said that even if you hire people who do know the basics of the language, and some algorithms, and even could solve a toy problem on paper, you might still hire someone who can't code at scale. Coding interviews typically don't test design skills, documentation skills, ability to not get lost on a larger code base, debugging skills, tendency to avoid hacks and increase tech debt etc.
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      Those are different skill sets. Someone may know and know how to properly use var, let and const according to standards and current trends. They may understand it deeply. But that doesn't mean that they can explain it to you. The question changes to: is what you are testing the actual skill you need? Are you hiring a teacher who is going to explain var,let,const as part of their job or are you hiring someone who needs to know how properly to use var,let,const? Send me over any developer who fails your teaching requirements for var,let,const but has code samples with proper usage. I've never seen a senior developer fired for poor coding. I've seen them get fired for being part of a department cut or because they got into a fight with the owner/boss. I've seen them fired because they make too much compared to outsourced resources.
      - koonsolo 4y ago
        > that doesn't mean that they can explain it to you. I'm sorry what? I don't expect them to teach me, I just want them to tell the difference. By the way, the ones that can't say: "they told me to always use let". I'll send them to you :D. Best of luck. > I've never seen a senior developer fired for poor coding. I've seen plenty. If a junior dev needs to help you out of trouble every time, you know there is something wrong. Some people just reach their limit very soon, and can hide away in some comppanies. Probaly companies where you seem to work. Other companies probably just have a higher bar, no disrespect meant.
        Cd00d 4y ago
        Look. I've seen a lot of your comments in this thread, and I don't think you're listening. You don't seem open to hearing. What I read is a knee jerk justification for your hiring methodology without being open to any feedback. You should take a breath. Clearly people disagree with you. Try to empathize with where they're coming from and understand the point they're trying to make.
        koonsolo 4y ago
        Ok, so what's the ideal hiring practice then? According to some here, it's just a little talk about previous experiences, not going into technical details at all. Sorry, but then you end up with people who are technically very weak. Been there done that. Look, I have a lot of experience with the hiring process. It's very difficult. I will listen to someone with a lot of hiring experience. But just saying "it's broken" isn't going to cut it. And remark that a big part of our hiring practice is to put the candidate at ease. I even say that they won't get everything right, and that's no problem. I help them out when they get stuck, etc.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > You can't imagine how many people can't even do or know the basics. I can imagine it, because I've been that person. It's simple interview anxiety, which causes temporary but severe performance degradation. Then when the interview is over, the anxiety suddenly disappears, and you can even go back and do the same problems much more easily. But I suppose interviewers will just assume that my resume is a lie or that I managed to incompetently hold onto previous jobs.

koonsolo 4y ago

I suppose you never did any interviews yourself. You can't imagine how many people can't even do or know the basics.

ipaddr 4y ago
Yet they are able to do the job. Something doesn't lineup with your testing methods vs outcome. If these people are finding work elsewhere and doing productive work for years what does it say about your process?
- koonsolo 4y ago
  Do you think they are looking for a job because they were fired somewhere else? Or do you think companies never fire people? We already fired plenty of people that we hired. So yes, our hiring process is not perfect. But if you're a JavaScript developer and can't explain the difference between var, let and const, I'm not going to hire you. If you claim these people are great developers, you are free to hire them. Let me know the details of your company. Whenever we find a candidate that doesn't satisfy our requirements (which is around 90% of them), I'll send them to you so you can hire them.
  - pkolaczk 4y ago
    I've never said you should hire people who can't tell var from const. I've said that even if you hire people who do know the basics of the language, and some algorithms, and even could solve a toy problem on paper, you might still hire someone who can't code at scale. Coding interviews typically don't test design skills, documentation skills, ability to not get lost on a larger code base, debugging skills, tendency to avoid hacks and increase tech debt etc.
  - ipaddr 4y ago
    Those are different skill sets. Someone may know and know how to properly use var, let and const according to standards and current trends. They may understand it deeply. But that doesn't mean that they can explain it to you. The question changes to: is what you are testing the actual skill you need? Are you hiring a teacher who is going to explain var,let,const as part of their job or are you hiring someone who needs to know how properly to use var,let,const? Send me over any developer who fails your teaching requirements for var,let,const but has code samples with proper usage. I've never seen a senior developer fired for poor coding. I've seen them get fired for being part of a department cut or because they got into a fight with the owner/boss. I've seen them fired because they make too much compared to outsourced resources.
    - koonsolo 4y ago
      > that doesn't mean that they can explain it to you. I'm sorry what? I don't expect them to teach me, I just want them to tell the difference. By the way, the ones that can't say: "they told me to always use let". I'll send them to you :D. Best of luck. > I've never seen a senior developer fired for poor coding. I've seen plenty. If a junior dev needs to help you out of trouble every time, you know there is something wrong. Some people just reach their limit very soon, and can hide away in some comppanies. Probaly companies where you seem to work. Other companies probably just have a higher bar, no disrespect meant.
      - Cd00d 4y ago
        Look. I've seen a lot of your comments in this thread, and I don't think you're listening. You don't seem open to hearing. What I read is a knee jerk justification for your hiring methodology without being open to any feedback. You should take a breath. Clearly people disagree with you. Try to empathize with where they're coming from and understand the point they're trying to make.
        koonsolo 4y ago
        Ok, so what's the ideal hiring practice then? According to some here, it's just a little talk about previous experiences, not going into technical details at all. Sorry, but then you end up with people who are technically very weak. Been there done that. Look, I have a lot of experience with the hiring process. It's very difficult. I will listen to someone with a lot of hiring experience. But just saying "it's broken" isn't going to cut it. And remark that a big part of our hiring practice is to put the candidate at ease. I even say that they won't get everything right, and that's no problem. I help them out when they get stuck, etc.
lapcat 4y ago
> You can't imagine how many people can't even do or know the basics. I can imagine it, because I've been that person. It's simple interview anxiety, which causes temporary but severe performance degradation. Then when the interview is over, the anxiety suddenly disappears, and you can even go back and do the same problems much more easily. But I suppose interviewers will just assume that my resume is a lie or that I managed to incompetently hold onto previous jobs.