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Instead of endlessly rehashing the controversy of coding interviews, has anyone considered just how engineers are expected to be able to understand the material

Instead of endlessly rehashing the controversy of coding interviews, has anyone considered just how engineers are expected to be able to understand the material on the interviews? Should it be from university CS programs? Which are supposed not to be vocational? And would discriminate against those who are not degree holders? Should it be from internships, which are nowadays subject to the same Leetcode examinations as actual work? Should it be from junior developer roles, which are an endangered species, as every business in desperate need for seniors, and lack the patience to train? Maybe open source can be a sort of free apprenticeship to teach developers these good practices? Or maybe grinding away at Leetcode, Project Euler, and arbitrary coding puzzles is really the only pedagogical solution.

mr_toad 4y ago
> Or maybe grinding away at Leetcode, Project Euler, and arbitrary coding puzzles is really the only pedagogical solution. It is how people pass these tests, but it’s pretty poor pedagogy.
azangru 4y ago
> has anyone considered just how engineers are expected to be able to understand the material on the interviews? I am confused - how is this question materially different from asking how engineers are expected to know what they will need in order to properly do their jobs? Just how are engineers expected to know programming languages, or domain-specific languages, or standard libraries, or platform apis? Is this what you are asking?
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  I am indeed asking that as well, given the completely unorganized and nonstandardized state of the industry.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  You are unintentionally correct, most engineers don't really know their programming language, standard libraries or basic APIs. They find _some_ solution on the internet that's good enough and run with it. Sometimes that is fine, sometimes it is not.
isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y ago
I don't get your comment on junior developers. We have no issue whatsoever hiring juniors (we hire about as many as mid-levels), but we don't have to settle for someone who doesn't have internships or projects and the openings can be closed in 2 weeks so it seems like nobody is hiring, but actually the bar has risen (and there are plenty of candidates who clear the bar).
- Apocryphon 4y ago
  That incredible dearth of junior positions is stranding a lot of new grads and juniors, as seen in discussions like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31537711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31537711

mr_toad 4y ago

> Or maybe grinding away at Leetcode, Project Euler, and arbitrary coding puzzles is really the only pedagogical solution. It is how people pass these tests, but it’s pretty poor pedagogy.

azangru 4y ago

> has anyone considered just how engineers are expected to be able to understand the material on the interviews? I am confused - how is this question materially different from asking how engineers are expected to know what they will need in order to properly do their jobs? Just how are engineers expected to know programming languages, or domain-specific languages, or standard libraries, or platform apis? Is this what you are asking?

Apocryphon 4y ago
I am indeed asking that as well, given the completely unorganized and nonstandardized state of the industry.
vorpalhex 4y ago
You are unintentionally correct, most engineers don't really know their programming language, standard libraries or basic APIs. They find _some_ solution on the internet that's good enough and run with it. Sometimes that is fine, sometimes it is not.

isbvhodnvemrwvn 4y ago

I don't get your comment on junior developers. We have no issue whatsoever hiring juniors (we hire about as many as mid-levels), but we don't have to settle for someone who doesn't have internships or projects and the openings can be closed in 2 weeks so it seems like nobody is hiring, but actually the bar has risen (and there are plenty of candidates who clear the bar).

Apocryphon 4y ago
That incredible dearth of junior positions is stranding a lot of new grads and juniors, as seen in discussions like this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31537711 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31537711