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What is your definition of the word “goal”? Example 1: The person focuses on abstract definitions of words like “mass” because they have a goal of avoiding mea

What is your definition of the word “goal”? Example 1: The person focuses on abstract definitions of words like “mass” because they have a goal of avoiding meaningful discussion. This tactic of arguing about words accomplishes this goal. Example 2: Arguing about words makes the poison feel good. Their goal of feeling good about themselves is accomplished. Example 3: A cynical loser who only cares about looking clever online chooses to argue about abstract definitions of words… chooses to argue about abstract definitions. This accomplishes the goal of asserting their superior intellect and better understanding of the world. Edit: LOL what is the blatant lie that I have repeatedly posted? I’ve mostly expressed my opinion that the author of the article is a masturbatory idiot and people that parrot his silly chin stroking nonsense are equally masturbatory idiots. That… isn’t a lie. I genuinely believe that to be the case!

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yucky 4y ago
I'm asking what the goal of lying is because I'm giving the people lying the benefit of the doubt, that maybe they are in their minds telling a "noble lie" or that they are doing it for some actual reason. If there is no "goal" to them lying about the numbers, then they're just lying to lie? Isn't that worse? I guess I'm trying to understand why people would intentionally undermine their position from the start by using statistics that they know aren't accurate or that are intentionally misleading, knowing that it immediately undermines their argument. So why would they do that? That's the question. You seem to be ok with them spinning a false narrative (ie. 27 "school shootings" this year) so I'm asking you since presumably you're ok with them starting the conversation with lies. Don't you understand that has the opposite of the intended effect?
- braingenious 4y ago
  > If there is no "goal" to them lying about the numbers, then they're just lying to lie? Isn't that worse? You keep asking me a version of “what motivates these liars that don’t agree with Robby Soave’s definition of the word ‘mass’?” I’m not really obligated to answer questions in order to support your world view. Anyway, I keep responding with my thoughts about the people that I think are lying — namely Robby Soave and yourself. By “lying” I mean “intentionally or unintentionally misleading.” I don’t know why it’s very important to you that the main focus of conversation after nineteen children get murdered is on the word “mass.” So I can’t really comment as to whether you’re lying on purpose or are just very misled yourself. I personally see this weird bait-and-switch word game that’s popular amongst reactionaries and goofy libertarians as a net negative for everybody. “Nineteen dead kids! I must rush to my keyboard to make sure that people use the word ‘mass’ in a way that’s commensurate with what I read in a Reason article!” is a deeply, deeply ridiculous and warped way of thinking. The people that respond to this sort of silly game aren’t lying to you. They just don’t respect your opinion because they see it as not serious. No matter hope many accusations and theoretical lies you throw around, nobody is required to respect you or your (LOL) opinions about words.
  - MichaelZuo 4y ago
    Your ad hominem attacks against someone who was at least being respectful is dragging down the vibe, more so than any amount of definitional hair splitting.
    - braingenious 4y ago
      I genuinely believe that it’s a net positive to call out what appears to be blatant bad faith arguments, even when the bad faith argument is said politely. Sorry for uh, “bringing down the vibe” in a discussion about how people are bickering about the statistical importance of dead kids to justify implicit biases. This conversation should have been more… jovial?
      - MichaelZuo 4y ago
        Who said anything about jovial? As I implied vibes can be about mutual respect.

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yucky 4y ago

I'm asking what the goal of lying is because I'm giving the people lying the benefit of the doubt, that maybe they are in their minds telling a "noble lie" or that they are doing it for some actual reason. If there is no "goal" to them lying about the numbers, then they're just lying to lie? Isn't that worse? I guess I'm trying to understand why people would intentionally undermine their position from the start by using statistics that they know aren't accurate or that are intentionally misleading, knowing that it immediately undermines their argument. So why would they do that? That's the question. You seem to be ok with them spinning a false narrative (ie. 27 "school shootings" this year) so I'm asking you since presumably you're ok with them starting the conversation with lies. Don't you understand that has the opposite of the intended effect?

braingenious 4y ago
> If there is no "goal" to them lying about the numbers, then they're just lying to lie? Isn't that worse? You keep asking me a version of “what motivates these liars that don’t agree with Robby Soave’s definition of the word ‘mass’?” I’m not really obligated to answer questions in order to support your world view. Anyway, I keep responding with my thoughts about the people that I think are lying — namely Robby Soave and yourself. By “lying” I mean “intentionally or unintentionally misleading.” I don’t know why it’s very important to you that the main focus of conversation after nineteen children get murdered is on the word “mass.” So I can’t really comment as to whether you’re lying on purpose or are just very misled yourself. I personally see this weird bait-and-switch word game that’s popular amongst reactionaries and goofy libertarians as a net negative for everybody. “Nineteen dead kids! I must rush to my keyboard to make sure that people use the word ‘mass’ in a way that’s commensurate with what I read in a Reason article!” is a deeply, deeply ridiculous and warped way of thinking. The people that respond to this sort of silly game aren’t lying to you. They just don’t respect your opinion because they see it as not serious. No matter hope many accusations and theoretical lies you throw around, nobody is required to respect you or your (LOL) opinions about words.
- MichaelZuo 4y ago
  Your ad hominem attacks against someone who was at least being respectful is dragging down the vibe, more so than any amount of definitional hair splitting.
  - braingenious 4y ago
    I genuinely believe that it’s a net positive to call out what appears to be blatant bad faith arguments, even when the bad faith argument is said politely. Sorry for uh, “bringing down the vibe” in a discussion about how people are bickering about the statistical importance of dead kids to justify implicit biases. This conversation should have been more… jovial?
    - MichaelZuo 4y ago
      Who said anything about jovial? As I implied vibes can be about mutual respect.