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>Well, if you're going to define both abortion and human so expansively, I can't say I have much sympathy for your position. If you are going to define human i

>Well, if you're going to define both abortion and human so expansively, I can't say I have much sympathy for your position. If you are going to define human is limited, I can't say I have much sympathy for your position. It is dehumanizing and absolutely frightening. >What about all the extra fertilized eggs produced via IVF? Do you think the ones not selected for implantation are "aborted" as well? Yes. >Cloning of human cell lines for various purposes (especially therapeutic) is going to throw a monkey wrench into your definitions, with "humans" flushed down the drain wholesale every day, as a matter of course. I don't believe random cells are humans. Please stop (deliberately?) straw-manning millions of people's beliefs. You sound like the people who say prolifers think masturbation is the same as abortion. Just stop. This conversation is not going anywhere and is a waste of time. We have such fundamental difference on what is a human that any higher level conversation is a waste.

webmaven 4y ago
> I don't believe random cells are humans. Please stop (deliberately?) straw-manning millions of people's beliefs. What makes a pluripotent stem cell not a human? If implanted, it would basically grow into one. With more research it could probably be implanted into an artificial womb instead. There is no difference between a clump of cloned cells and a clump of cells originating from a fertilized egg, except some incidental details like methylation that aren't essential and can be reset as needed. Growing cloned organs and tissues for transplanting isn't all that far away. Pretty soon the ultra wealthy will pay to grow entire bodies to transplant their brain into. They may not wait for the additional research necessary to grow clones without a neocortex. So personally, I am worrying a lot more about regulating the things we allow cells to be grown into than about giving the clumps of cells rights depending on the exact methodology of their origin. And that's still just considering cells that are sourced solely from humans.

webmaven 4y ago

> I don't believe random cells are humans. Please stop (deliberately?) straw-manning millions of people's beliefs. What makes a pluripotent stem cell not a human? If implanted, it would basically grow into one. With more research it could probably be implanted into an artificial womb instead. There is no difference between a clump of cloned cells and a clump of cells originating from a fertilized egg, except some incidental details like methylation that aren't essential and can be reset as needed. Growing cloned organs and tissues for transplanting isn't all that far away. Pretty soon the ultra wealthy will pay to grow entire bodies to transplant their brain into. They may not wait for the additional research necessary to grow clones without a neocortex. So personally, I am worrying a lot more about regulating the things we allow cells to be grown into than about giving the clumps of cells rights depending on the exact methodology of their origin. And that's still just considering cells that are sourced solely from humans.