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Perhaps I wasn't clear enough before, but what I'm trying to ask is whether or not being an internalizer that acknowledges oneself as a victim (through burnout

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough before, but what I'm trying to ask is whether or not being an internalizer that acknowledges oneself as a victim (through burnout or a shocking epiphany) could lead to becoming a pessimistic externalizer. That because this ex-internalizer has recognized he has been victimized, he will try to study how he's been wronged and come to the conclusion that he had little control over his life. Or perhaps that staying quiet was what made one a victim in the first place, so that one should do the opposite. At that point, would "don't be a victim" be useful advice or an empty platitude?

kelseyfrog 4y ago
That's certainly possible. Someone who has tried every possible way to direct their agency inward without results can simply burn out and feel helpless to affect change. By process of elimination, they've shifted their locus of control outward. This isn't a given though. I know plenty of people who overinternalize to the point of burnout and don't become cynical externalizes[1]. In my experience "dont be a victim" means "please stop complaining" more than anything else. A friend who truly does wish to help might start with getting curious about why the externalizing victim feels like they cannot affect change, but this is tricky. Often people don't want to be offered unsolicited advice or be made to feel like they have to prove that they have exhausted their options before being offered sympathy. It's a fine line. 1. Before someone else chimes in with it being a useless model because it does not make predictions - that's not the point. It's a mode of interpretation/critical lens, not a predictive model.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  > That's certainly possible. Someone who has tried every possible way to direct their agency inward without results can simply burn out and feel helpless to affect change. By process of elimination, they've shifted their locus of control outward. That's a clear and concise summary of what I meant. What, in your experience would the solution to such a Catch-22 be? I'm sure most reasonable individuals would want meaningful and effective agency but denying the reality and pretending they have sufficient agency isn't helpful either.
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    Sorry, I don't think I'm the right person to give that advice. That genuinely sounds like the start of a healthy and productive journey with a therapist.

kelseyfrog 4y ago

That's certainly possible. Someone who has tried every possible way to direct their agency inward without results can simply burn out and feel helpless to affect change. By process of elimination, they've shifted their locus of control outward. This isn't a given though. I know plenty of people who overinternalize to the point of burnout and don't become cynical externalizes[1]. In my experience "dont be a victim" means "please stop complaining" more than anything else. A friend who truly does wish to help might start with getting curious about why the externalizing victim feels like they cannot affect change, but this is tricky. Often people don't want to be offered unsolicited advice or be made to feel like they have to prove that they have exhausted their options before being offered sympathy. It's a fine line. 1. Before someone else chimes in with it being a useless model because it does not make predictions - that's not the point. It's a mode of interpretation/critical lens, not a predictive model.

Dracophoenix 4y ago
> That's certainly possible. Someone who has tried every possible way to direct their agency inward without results can simply burn out and feel helpless to affect change. By process of elimination, they've shifted their locus of control outward. That's a clear and concise summary of what I meant. What, in your experience would the solution to such a Catch-22 be? I'm sure most reasonable individuals would want meaningful and effective agency but denying the reality and pretending they have sufficient agency isn't helpful either.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  Sorry, I don't think I'm the right person to give that advice. That genuinely sounds like the start of a healthy and productive journey with a therapist.