8 ms·

Oh yeah, how?

endisneigh 4y ago
Class action, violation of the Terms and Conditions. I'd honestly be shocked if Google/Microsoft are monitoring the clients of their public cloud and keeping the data to create their own products off of.
- fartcannon 4y ago
  Prepare to be shocked.
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    proof?
    - fartcannon 4y ago
      The existence of copilot, for one.
      - endisneigh 4y ago
        that's not proof, lol. That uses publicly available code. are you suggesting it's trained on private code? not to mention I was talking about cloud workloads since you said everything
        fartcannon 4y ago
        Nobody said anything about private or public. What was said was 'everything they can get their hands on'. Thou doth protest too much.
        endisneigh 4y ago
        everything they can get their hands on includes both private and public data? they have access to the private data, by definition. the entire point is that it's not exposed nor is it used. clearly you've never worked at one of the companies in question lol. when you're on-call you might need to actually access private data. true data sovereignty products are something countries in the EU are wanting USA companies to implement though, so then it's simply inaccessible, not public or private. the industry is moving in this direction with things like AWS Outposts
        fartcannon 4y ago
        Google needs to spend more on PR I think.
        filoleg 4y ago
        > when you're on-call you might need to actually access private data. When I was on-call and had to dive deep to solve customers' issues at one of those companies, we could only access anonymized data stripped of all PII (including emails and even IP addresses), to the point where the only non-scrambled things we could get were timestamps and error stacktraces/executed commands (which were also stripped of all PII, which made debugging a bit more difficult). And every instance of access to that anonymized no-PII data required a physical authenticator, and it would automatically send an email to your manager (and some mailing group, i forgot) and create a special log that indicated "such and such was trying to access this anonymized ABC data for XYZ stated purpose".
        loo 4y ago
        That includes private data. Thou critical thinkest too little.
        schoen 4y ago
        I think you want "thinkest" (2nd person) rather than "thinketh" (3rd person). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thinkest https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thinkest
        loo 4y ago
        Thanks. Edited.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  The terms and conditions almost certainly bind you to arbitration so no class action.
  - andrewnicolalde 4y ago
    What about Europe?
- Datenstrom 4y ago
  I'd be shocked if they weren't, it seems like a totally standard big corp playbook move. It would be the same exact thing Amazon was doing with their independent seller data[1]. [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-scooped-up-data-from-its-own-sellers-to-launch-competing-products-11587650015 https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-scooped-up-data-from-its...
  - endisneigh 4y ago
    that's not the same thing, since it's public info.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- Spooky23 4y ago
  They’d need to be very careful in doing so, as they both operate services that are certified and audited to meet US Gov FedRAMP High control standards, and doing that would violate several audited control standards. A breach in that area would cost them potentially billions in losses.
  - onesmalldrop 4y ago
    Public clouds are separated from their gov versions, with gov versions using older, modified versions of what everyone else uses. public clouds ARE NOT fedramp compliant
    - Spooky23 4y ago
      Not necessarily. Lots and lots of .gov operates in commercial clouds. Google doesn’t even have a distinct offering - just support add-ons for things like CJIS compliance. Microsoft’s footprint is a lot more complex. Outside of the DoD space, the main distinctions between these offerings is where data can be stored and where and to what level of vetting vendor employees are.
    - rrdharan 4y ago
      This is not true. Google Cloud ‘s FedRAMP offering uses the same regions, zones and binaries and configurations as the regular public cloud offering. Source: I work on FedRAMP compliance for GCP Databases.
      - my123 4y ago
        For reference, this is also the same case for AWS: https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/services-in-scope/ https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/services-in-scope/ AWS US East-West (Northern Virginia, Ohio, Oregon, Northern California) is FedRAMP compliant at moderate impact level.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]

Oh yeah, how?

Class action, violation of the Terms and Conditions. I'd honestly be shocked if Google/Microsoft are monitoring the clients of their public cloud and keeping the data to create their own products off of.

fartcannon 4y ago
Prepare to be shocked.
- endisneigh 4y ago
  proof?
  - fartcannon 4y ago
    The existence of copilot, for one.
    - endisneigh 4y ago
      that's not proof, lol. That uses publicly available code. are you suggesting it's trained on private code? not to mention I was talking about cloud workloads since you said everything
      - fartcannon 4y ago
        Nobody said anything about private or public. What was said was 'everything they can get their hands on'. Thou doth protest too much.
        endisneigh 4y ago
        everything they can get their hands on includes both private and public data? they have access to the private data, by definition. the entire point is that it's not exposed nor is it used. clearly you've never worked at one of the companies in question lol. when you're on-call you might need to actually access private data. true data sovereignty products are something countries in the EU are wanting USA companies to implement though, so then it's simply inaccessible, not public or private. the industry is moving in this direction with things like AWS Outposts
        fartcannon 4y ago
        Google needs to spend more on PR I think.
        filoleg 4y ago
        > when you're on-call you might need to actually access private data. When I was on-call and had to dive deep to solve customers' issues at one of those companies, we could only access anonymized data stripped of all PII (including emails and even IP addresses), to the point where the only non-scrambled things we could get were timestamps and error stacktraces/executed commands (which were also stripped of all PII, which made debugging a bit more difficult). And every instance of access to that anonymized no-PII data required a physical authenticator, and it would automatically send an email to your manager (and some mailing group, i forgot) and create a special log that indicated "such and such was trying to access this anonymized ABC data for XYZ stated purpose".
        loo 4y ago
        That includes private data. Thou critical thinkest too little.
        schoen 4y ago
        I think you want "thinkest" (2nd person) rather than "thinketh" (3rd person). https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thinkest https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/thinkest
        loo 4y ago
        Thanks. Edited.
willcipriano 4y ago
The terms and conditions almost certainly bind you to arbitration so no class action.
- andrewnicolalde 4y ago
  What about Europe?
Datenstrom 4y ago
I'd be shocked if they weren't, it seems like a totally standard big corp playbook move. It would be the same exact thing Amazon was doing with their independent seller data[1]. [1]: https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-scooped-up-data-from-its-own-sellers-to-launch-competing-products-11587650015 https://www.wsj.com/articles/amazon-scooped-up-data-from-its...
- endisneigh 4y ago
  that's not the same thing, since it's public info.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
Spooky23 4y ago
They’d need to be very careful in doing so, as they both operate services that are certified and audited to meet US Gov FedRAMP High control standards, and doing that would violate several audited control standards. A breach in that area would cost them potentially billions in losses.
- onesmalldrop 4y ago
  Public clouds are separated from their gov versions, with gov versions using older, modified versions of what everyone else uses. public clouds ARE NOT fedramp compliant
  - Spooky23 4y ago
    Not necessarily. Lots and lots of .gov operates in commercial clouds. Google doesn’t even have a distinct offering - just support add-ons for things like CJIS compliance. Microsoft’s footprint is a lot more complex. Outside of the DoD space, the main distinctions between these offerings is where data can be stored and where and to what level of vetting vendor employees are.
  - rrdharan 4y ago
    This is not true. Google Cloud ‘s FedRAMP offering uses the same regions, zones and binaries and configurations as the regular public cloud offering. Source: I work on FedRAMP compliance for GCP Databases.
    - my123 4y ago
      For reference, this is also the same case for AWS: https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/services-in-scope/ https://aws.amazon.com/compliance/services-in-scope/ AWS US East-West (Northern Virginia, Ohio, Oregon, Northern California) is FedRAMP compliant at moderate impact level.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]