5 ms·

why don't more people act as their own architect / build more of their housing themselves? I'm coming from an attitude of "a house is a home, a machine to make

why don't more people act as their own architect / build more of their housing themselves? I'm coming from an attitude of "a house is a home, a machine to make the lives of my family easier and more comfortable", not "houses are an investment with incidental utility as shelter." Is it that many don't care about their house as a home?

dazc 4y ago
People seem to want to move in with everything aready done, shiny kitchen, fitted carpets, etc, etc. This would be great if houses were built like Toyotas - but they're not.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  They basically are. The various tract builders in the US (DR Horton, Lennnar, etc) even have the same offerings of budget and luxury models. You can get a Toyota which meets minimum code requirements (e.g. dr Horton express) or a Lexus (e.g. dr Horton emerald) which comes with nicer finishes.
leetcrew 4y ago
cashflow? during the time it takes to plan and build the new house, you have to pay for that in addition to the place you're still living in.
actionablefiber 4y ago
Most people who own homes either A) have most of their net worth tied up in it or B) have a levered position in its value via mortgage. And many people who don't own homes, especially younger people, have pretty much given up hope on being able to own their own home within their lifetimes. The rapid rise in housing prices and rents over the past couple decades means a lot of people are moving - their rents go up and their wages aren't keeping pace. So, it's somewhat of a luxury to be able to form an emotional attachment to your home, without worrying about its effect on your finances.
- foogazi 4y ago
  > The rapid rise in housing prices and rents over the past couple decades means a lot of people are moving Isn’t that the rule ? Wasn’t there a huge shift to the US west in search of opportunities? People move all the time to find a better life for themselves You can sit around and wait for your cities laws to revert the market and offer walkable cities, mass public transit, solve homelessness… or move
  - actionablefiber 4y ago
    Your points only make sense from the perspective of someone with the resources and flexibility to move at any time to any place. Many people move because they're priced out of their former dwellings. Many people who want to move to a different area can't because of financial/family reasons.
tfehring 4y ago
Building your own housing usually means living either in the middle of nowhere or at the sprawling edge of suburbia. None of the places I would want to live have much, if any, empty developable land. So that would mean a tear down and rebuild of an existing house, which is a lot more expensive than just buying an existing house. Also, relatively modern building codes and zoning rules like setback requirements put new construction at a disadvantage compared to existing housing.
TacticalCoder 4y ago
> why don't more people act as their own architect / build more of their housing themselves? In Europe at least legality of the process. I do a shitload of DIY in the home and so does my brother in his home. Fancy hotel-looking closet with lighting and whatnots? (this sure give a "luxury" feel): we got it. But I'm not allowed to build a house from scracth. I'd love to: my grandfather build a chalet all by himself in the fifties and that chalet still exists. For the architect plans you kinda can do it yourself and then find an architect that'll adapt and sign the plans. But the concrete, the electricity: you need stamps/approval from professional and the state does send people verifying that everything is kosher. You can have the wall and electricity lay out and then do a lot yourself, but you now have the issue that the price you'll pay for "stuff" aren't the discounted prices the professionals do get.
lotsofpulp 4y ago
> Is it that many don't care about their house as a home? Most people do not even understand something as simple as marginal income taxes and income tax withholding procedures. They would be well out of their league managing real estate development. Not to mention they would need to quit their day job to manage all the contractors. And even with a general contractor (GC), you need to know enough and spend enough time to make sure you and/or the GC is not getting scammed. You will not find out about big problems until years after, and good luck pursuing those at fault. Also, most people have nowhere near the necessary liquidity or cash flow to handle purchasing land, obtaining a construction loan, and managing payments for materials and labor.
GoldenRacer 4y ago
How does that work if I want something cheaper than a single family home such as a condo? I can't build a stand alone condo (I mean a stand alone 600 square foot house on a 0.05 acre lot would be awesome for me but zoning regulations prohibit that in practically all areas of the US). I'd need to organize dozens of people that also want a condo. That's not really feasible for me. I'd also say zoning generally prohibits this in most desirable areas. Developers have the ability to do a lot of legal work to get approvals and permits. Since they are getting approval for a large number of buildings or units, they can distribute that cost and so they can sometimes build in those desirable areas where it would be too costly for me to build as an individual.
pessimizer 4y ago
Modern societies try their best to make independence difficult if not impossible by encouraging rent-seekers and gatekeepers. There were the Walter Segal people trying to bring back something like this, especially for lower income people with more time and bicep than cash, but* 1) The animating principle of his simple construction designs was that they were based on off-the-shelf materials and the industry conventions on how they are sold, and could be built incrementally. Those designs turned out to be hard to insulate. Alternatives that were far better to insulate would require new designs, the materials were harder to find, and building codes are tuned to enforcing the exact kind of construction that we always do (and that the old designs were a variation of.) He also created this sort of drag and drop style of architecture based on standard material sizes enabling people to design their houses themselves, and all of that has to be thrown away with alternative materials. That gets rid of most of Walter Segal's material contribution, leaving only the spirit of self-building. 2) Houses in Segal developments ended up shooting up in value, so it ultimately didn't solve any problems. It's land value that's important anyway. The way to solve this would be to only self-build in undesirable areas or on your own land? * in my humble opinion from research. ----- http://www.ianwhite.info/THE_SEGAL_METHOD.pdf http://www.ianwhite.info/THE_SEGAL_METHOD.pdf http://www.waltersegal.org.uk/ http://www.waltersegal.org.uk/ https://thequietus.com/articles/19906-aa-self-build-revolution-walter-segal-assemble https://thequietus.com/articles/19906-aa-self-build-revoluti... https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/peek-inside-the-homes-of-the-worlds-most-famous-creatives https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/peek-inside-the-ho... [posted just for the main photograph and its caption. Segal houses were eventually just baubles for rich people.]
lupire 4y ago
Why don't you build your own laptop and car and furniture and appliances?
- h2odragon 4y ago
  Furniture is an especially good example where DIY is still possible to home handcraft, and desirable for individual fit, as well as many other reasons. Done that. "appliances" too. moreso if you count frankenstein abominations that only I can run safely. there's some things I could sell to others and expect them to use without dying, so that counts. "Laptops" meh. but I've had mobile computing things that featured structural duct tape and were indeed mobile, so I think that counts too. "Car" ... I've assisted with the construction of go karts, dune buggies, and the repurposing of mass market cars into nasty perversions of their original functions. So I'll say "done that" too. So yes, I think on reflection I can answer "I do."

dazc 4y ago

People seem to want to move in with everything aready done, shiny kitchen, fitted carpets, etc, etc. This would be great if houses were built like Toyotas - but they're not.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
They basically are. The various tract builders in the US (DR Horton, Lennnar, etc) even have the same offerings of budget and luxury models. You can get a Toyota which meets minimum code requirements (e.g. dr Horton express) or a Lexus (e.g. dr Horton emerald) which comes with nicer finishes.

leetcrew 4y ago

cashflow? during the time it takes to plan and build the new house, you have to pay for that in addition to the place you're still living in.

actionablefiber 4y ago

Most people who own homes either A) have most of their net worth tied up in it or B) have a levered position in its value via mortgage. And many people who don't own homes, especially younger people, have pretty much given up hope on being able to own their own home within their lifetimes. The rapid rise in housing prices and rents over the past couple decades means a lot of people are moving - their rents go up and their wages aren't keeping pace. So, it's somewhat of a luxury to be able to form an emotional attachment to your home, without worrying about its effect on your finances.

foogazi 4y ago
> The rapid rise in housing prices and rents over the past couple decades means a lot of people are moving Isn’t that the rule ? Wasn’t there a huge shift to the US west in search of opportunities? People move all the time to find a better life for themselves You can sit around and wait for your cities laws to revert the market and offer walkable cities, mass public transit, solve homelessness… or move
- actionablefiber 4y ago
  Your points only make sense from the perspective of someone with the resources and flexibility to move at any time to any place. Many people move because they're priced out of their former dwellings. Many people who want to move to a different area can't because of financial/family reasons.

tfehring 4y ago

Building your own housing usually means living either in the middle of nowhere or at the sprawling edge of suburbia. None of the places I would want to live have much, if any, empty developable land. So that would mean a tear down and rebuild of an existing house, which is a lot more expensive than just buying an existing house. Also, relatively modern building codes and zoning rules like setback requirements put new construction at a disadvantage compared to existing housing.

TacticalCoder 4y ago

> why don't more people act as their own architect / build more of their housing themselves? In Europe at least legality of the process. I do a shitload of DIY in the home and so does my brother in his home. Fancy hotel-looking closet with lighting and whatnots? (this sure give a "luxury" feel): we got it. But I'm not allowed to build a house from scracth. I'd love to: my grandfather build a chalet all by himself in the fifties and that chalet still exists. For the architect plans you kinda can do it yourself and then find an architect that'll adapt and sign the plans. But the concrete, the electricity: you need stamps/approval from professional and the state does send people verifying that everything is kosher. You can have the wall and electricity lay out and then do a lot yourself, but you now have the issue that the price you'll pay for "stuff" aren't the discounted prices the professionals do get.

lotsofpulp 4y ago

> Is it that many don't care about their house as a home? Most people do not even understand something as simple as marginal income taxes and income tax withholding procedures. They would be well out of their league managing real estate development. Not to mention they would need to quit their day job to manage all the contractors. And even with a general contractor (GC), you need to know enough and spend enough time to make sure you and/or the GC is not getting scammed. You will not find out about big problems until years after, and good luck pursuing those at fault. Also, most people have nowhere near the necessary liquidity or cash flow to handle purchasing land, obtaining a construction loan, and managing payments for materials and labor.

GoldenRacer 4y ago

How does that work if I want something cheaper than a single family home such as a condo? I can't build a stand alone condo (I mean a stand alone 600 square foot house on a 0.05 acre lot would be awesome for me but zoning regulations prohibit that in practically all areas of the US). I'd need to organize dozens of people that also want a condo. That's not really feasible for me. I'd also say zoning generally prohibits this in most desirable areas. Developers have the ability to do a lot of legal work to get approvals and permits. Since they are getting approval for a large number of buildings or units, they can distribute that cost and so they can sometimes build in those desirable areas where it would be too costly for me to build as an individual.

pessimizer 4y ago

Modern societies try their best to make independence difficult if not impossible by encouraging rent-seekers and gatekeepers. There were the Walter Segal people trying to bring back something like this, especially for lower income people with more time and bicep than cash, but* 1) The animating principle of his simple construction designs was that they were based on off-the-shelf materials and the industry conventions on how they are sold, and could be built incrementally. Those designs turned out to be hard to insulate. Alternatives that were far better to insulate would require new designs, the materials were harder to find, and building codes are tuned to enforcing the exact kind of construction that we always do (and that the old designs were a variation of.) He also created this sort of drag and drop style of architecture based on standard material sizes enabling people to design their houses themselves, and all of that has to be thrown away with alternative materials. That gets rid of most of Walter Segal's material contribution, leaving only the spirit of self-building. 2) Houses in Segal developments ended up shooting up in value, so it ultimately didn't solve any problems. It's land value that's important anyway. The way to solve this would be to only self-build in undesirable areas or on your own land? * in my humble opinion from research. ----- http://www.ianwhite.info/THE_SEGAL_METHOD.pdf http://www.ianwhite.info/THE_SEGAL_METHOD.pdf http://www.waltersegal.org.uk/ http://www.waltersegal.org.uk/ https://thequietus.com/articles/19906-aa-self-build-revolution-walter-segal-assemble https://thequietus.com/articles/19906-aa-self-build-revoluti... https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/peek-inside-the-homes-of-the-worlds-most-famous-creatives https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/peek-inside-the-ho... [posted just for the main photograph and its caption. Segal houses were eventually just baubles for rich people.]

lupire 4y ago

Why don't you build your own laptop and car and furniture and appliances?

h2odragon 4y ago
Furniture is an especially good example where DIY is still possible to home handcraft, and desirable for individual fit, as well as many other reasons. Done that. "appliances" too. moreso if you count frankenstein abominations that only I can run safely. there's some things I could sell to others and expect them to use without dying, so that counts. "Laptops" meh. but I've had mobile computing things that featured structural duct tape and were indeed mobile, so I think that counts too. "Car" ... I've assisted with the construction of go karts, dune buggies, and the repurposing of mass market cars into nasty perversions of their original functions. So I'll say "done that" too. So yes, I think on reflection I can answer "I do."