7 ms·

It strikes me that new anything is usually better than older, used things. So almost by definition, anyone building a new version of X is going to build somethi

It strikes me that new anything is usually better than older, used things. So almost by definition, anyone building a new version of X is going to build something nicer than the old, used versions of X and this will be perceived as a luxury. Sure there are edge cases like nice antiques and the building where they filmed Downton Abbey but for the most part older stuff is just less nice.

CalRobert 4y ago
I can't fathom the logic behind the idea that we'll get people to build brand new housing to a high spec and sell it for less than existing, very expensive housing. Every time anyone builds stuff near me there's cries of "BUT IT'S NOT AFFORDABLE!!!" and I just think... duh? New cars are expensive too, which is why you buy a used one....
- acover 4y ago
  Toyota makes a new camry as well as a new lexus.
  - indymike 4y ago
    The point he's trying to make is that a new house often costs less than a used house, which is the opposite in the car market.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      No, the point he is making is not that they are actually less expensive than existing comparable homes, but that people complain that they do not meet affordability standards that would require them to be less expensive.
  - trivialsoup 4y ago
    Sure but the new economy sedan is more expensive than the used economy sedan. According to this interpretation therefore, if you build a new house, and it is broadly similar to houses in the neighborhood in which you build it… it’s going to be expensive relative to its neighbors. It will perhaps be perceived as “luxury” despite just being new.
    - acover 4y ago
      > If the land is valuable, and all you can build on it is a single-family home, why not build a very expensive single-family home? The article suggests changing zoning so triplex/fourplexes can be built. Even if they have marble countertops, they'd still be more affordable than a house. Currently, I can't build the housing version of a Camry.
      - tfigment 4y ago
        I live in a townhouse. Its land efficient, i have a garage w/ storage its relatively affordable to houses. What i dont like are HOA fees and useless common expenses (the pool) and forced rules (only white curtains). The space 3 units take up is about one house in same neighborhood.
  - CalRobert 4y ago
    Right... and new camrys are more expensive than used Camrys...
- chrisseaton 4y ago
  But older houses are better (nicer architecture, better materials, more space, more mature trees) than newer houses.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    With asbestos, lead, I couldn’t just pick a piece of land and go to a showroom and get exactly what we wanted. Choose to get cat 6 prewired throughout the house. Some really old ones don’t have central air (even my parents house they had built in 1978 did). I’ve bought five properties over the years. The two I bought to live in I had built and never had the maintenance costs people complain about (2002-2012 and 2016 - present).
    - chrisseaton 4y ago
      At least in the UK I don't think most people care about the tech of their house (air conditioning, certainly not network cabling) like this.
      - lozenge 4y ago
        Air conditioning is going to hugely increase in popularity here in the UK. I think people like the tech, including better heating and sound and heat insulation and FTTP, but it's balanced out by the poor reputation of new builds in terms of quality issues.
        ghaff 4y ago
        Expectations have also just shifted with respect to things like air conditioning. I live in a very old house and, while I do put a window unit in my office, my brother could never understand me not having central air in Massachusetts. He did just rebuild a house after a fire and put all the latest gadgetry and controls in. The heat pump seems nice but mostly I find there's a lot of complexity and not a lot that offers significant advantages relative to my house.
        CalRobert 4y ago
chrisseaton 4y ago
In the UK new-builds are seen as the worst option. Most people want a house from the 20s or 30s if they can. Every decade beyond that the quality of housing got worse and worse and worse. These days buying a new house is a desperate option for people who can’t afford anything else.
- nopenopenopeno 4y ago
  For houses, it is the same in the US. But new condos and apartments buildings are another story.
- bombcar 4y ago
  There’s some of that in the US but the reality is that modern home construction is way ahead on energy usage, even if the homes aren’t built from solid timbers and boards.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    It is only on this forum that I have encountered this bizarre “all new construction is lower quality than all old construction” opinion.
    - bombcar 4y ago
      It exists elsewhere and with qualifications it can be correct. My sub-floorboards are inch+ thick solid oak. You’d never see that today. But many other aspects of the house are annoying and silly.
- dazc 4y ago
  Elephant in the room being the 'help to buy subsidy'. Half the deposit needed for a new build rather than an old build. That said, I'm not sure I have much sympathy for these buyers. There is a new esatate near me where everyone is driving a newish car in the 30-50K price range?
  - scarface74 4y ago

CalRobert 4y ago

I can't fathom the logic behind the idea that we'll get people to build brand new housing to a high spec and sell it for less than existing, very expensive housing. Every time anyone builds stuff near me there's cries of "BUT IT'S NOT AFFORDABLE!!!" and I just think... duh? New cars are expensive too, which is why you buy a used one....

acover 4y ago
Toyota makes a new camry as well as a new lexus.
- indymike 4y ago
  The point he's trying to make is that a new house often costs less than a used house, which is the opposite in the car market.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    No, the point he is making is not that they are actually less expensive than existing comparable homes, but that people complain that they do not meet affordability standards that would require them to be less expensive.
- trivialsoup 4y ago
  Sure but the new economy sedan is more expensive than the used economy sedan. According to this interpretation therefore, if you build a new house, and it is broadly similar to houses in the neighborhood in which you build it… it’s going to be expensive relative to its neighbors. It will perhaps be perceived as “luxury” despite just being new.
  - acover 4y ago
    > If the land is valuable, and all you can build on it is a single-family home, why not build a very expensive single-family home? The article suggests changing zoning so triplex/fourplexes can be built. Even if they have marble countertops, they'd still be more affordable than a house. Currently, I can't build the housing version of a Camry.
    - tfigment 4y ago
      I live in a townhouse. Its land efficient, i have a garage w/ storage its relatively affordable to houses. What i dont like are HOA fees and useless common expenses (the pool) and forced rules (only white curtains). The space 3 units take up is about one house in same neighborhood.
- CalRobert 4y ago
  Right... and new camrys are more expensive than used Camrys...
chrisseaton 4y ago
But older houses are better (nicer architecture, better materials, more space, more mature trees) than newer houses.
- scarface74 4y ago
  With asbestos, lead, I couldn’t just pick a piece of land and go to a showroom and get exactly what we wanted. Choose to get cat 6 prewired throughout the house. Some really old ones don’t have central air (even my parents house they had built in 1978 did). I’ve bought five properties over the years. The two I bought to live in I had built and never had the maintenance costs people complain about (2002-2012 and 2016 - present).
  - chrisseaton 4y ago
    At least in the UK I don't think most people care about the tech of their house (air conditioning, certainly not network cabling) like this.
    - lozenge 4y ago
      Air conditioning is going to hugely increase in popularity here in the UK. I think people like the tech, including better heating and sound and heat insulation and FTTP, but it's balanced out by the poor reputation of new builds in terms of quality issues.
      - ghaff 4y ago
        Expectations have also just shifted with respect to things like air conditioning. I live in a very old house and, while I do put a window unit in my office, my brother could never understand me not having central air in Massachusetts. He did just rebuild a house after a fire and put all the latest gadgetry and controls in. The heat pump seems nice but mostly I find there's a lot of complexity and not a lot that offers significant advantages relative to my house.
      - CalRobert 4y ago

chrisseaton 4y ago

In the UK new-builds are seen as the worst option. Most people want a house from the 20s or 30s if they can. Every decade beyond that the quality of housing got worse and worse and worse. These days buying a new house is a desperate option for people who can’t afford anything else.

nopenopenopeno 4y ago
For houses, it is the same in the US. But new condos and apartments buildings are another story.
bombcar 4y ago
There’s some of that in the US but the reality is that modern home construction is way ahead on energy usage, even if the homes aren’t built from solid timbers and boards.
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  It is only on this forum that I have encountered this bizarre “all new construction is lower quality than all old construction” opinion.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    It exists elsewhere and with qualifications it can be correct. My sub-floorboards are inch+ thick solid oak. You’d never see that today. But many other aspects of the house are annoying and silly.
dazc 4y ago
Elephant in the room being the 'help to buy subsidy'. Half the deposit needed for a new build rather than an old build. That said, I'm not sure I have much sympathy for these buyers. There is a new esatate near me where everyone is driving a newish car in the 30-50K price range?
- scarface74 4y ago