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When I First Saw Elon Musk for Who He Really Is

97 points by AndrewDucker 4y ago

tim333 4y ago
This guys been banging on about Tesla / Musk for years. See for example: "What’s Wrong With Tesla? How Much Time Do You Have? By Edward Niedermeyer on February 5, 2010" Meanwhile TSLA is about about 200x since then. Haters gonna hate hate hate...
- philistine 4y ago
  Is stock price the only valuable thing in life? Just to cite one element, the dispute over the painting plant. That won't have any impact on the stock price, it's too small a thing, but is illegally polluting irrelevant because the stock is going up?
  - tim333 4y ago
    Well, obviously not. It was just an illustration Tesla has done well in spite of Niedermeyer's very negative article. Reading the article also makes the "When I First Saw Elon Musk for Who He Really Is" ... "On a beautiful day in May 2015"... shtick seem phony when he links an article he wrote on Musk's bad character in he wrote in 2009. (https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/03/tesla-descends-into-witch-hunt-hell/ https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/03/tesla-descends-int...)
barrysteve 4y ago
People don't really take Elon at his word anyway. They lap up his mystical attitude towards starry eyed goals. He appears to be a really science and tech oriented guy and he is technical but people dont come to hear it. His conversations in the public focus heavily on symbolic action, mysteries of the future and innovation and very little on analyzing fundamental technical challenges. His presentations are like Steve Jobs with a focus on mysticism but the public takes Elon's technical and analytical ability for granted, like a protected trait. None of his fans really want to get into the nitty gritty and his PR strategy seems to be fine with that.
cudgy 4y ago
The tone of the article is enough to immediately make you doubt the veracity of the author of the article. The writing drips of sarcasm and vitriol. The comment about unmuzzling Trump as the reason he wants to spend tens of billions of dollars is complete conjecture and to be frank insulting to the intelligence of the reader. If the author is trying to convince anyone who doesn’t already hate Elon Musk, they failed miserably.
- zirpderp 4y ago
  I agree that the author failed, but really only in one regard, he didn't call it a cult of personality. Its really just a weird eco-BS-cult that has taken the gap left by traditional religion and inserted itself as part of people's personalities and belief systems, that when attacked for the obvious house of cards that they are, will always jump to defend dear leader at all costs, lest they admit to themselves they were fooled. But hey at least you're in good company. @teslacharts
adastra22 4y ago
Remember folks, it's politics season. If it reads like a hit piece, ask yourself why someone would want this published now.
- GoodJokes 4y ago
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Remember folks, it's politics season. If it reads like a hit piece, ask yourself why someone would want this published now. Because Elon Musk has been particularly noisy and attention-seeking lately, with the Twitter acquisition drama?
  - adastra22 4y ago
    Hardly any more than usual.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      >> Because Elon Musk has been particularly noisy and attention-seeking lately, with the Twitter acquisition drama? > Hardly any more than usual. No, it is definitely more than usual, or at least it's different in a notable way.
- brtkdotse 4y ago
  Normally, I’d agree. But on the other hand Musk has been working overtime the last few months to wreck his personal brand.
  - snovv_crash 4y ago
    Which actions specifically do you think contributed the most here?
    - belltaco 4y ago
FullyFunctional 4y ago
I have bought three Tesla since they first came out. I love the cars, dispute imperfections they are still the best I have driven. But - I’m embarrassed to have any association, however remote. with Musk. There were plenty of warning signs, but it’s wasn’t until Covid (“Silly, it’s just like a flu”) that I couldn’t look away any more. Since then his megalomania has only grown. Where does it end?
- TradingPlaces 4y ago
  Same here, except just one Tesla. Breaking point for me was “pedo guy”. Elon is one of America’s premiere douchebags, against stiff competition. I imagine there were many Jewish and Black Model-T Ford owners who felt the same way about Henry Ford.
- dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
  Now he's up to "You think that is bad, wait until you see what [Bill Gates] has put in the vaccines."
  - tpmx 4y ago
    I couldn't find that tweet. Can you? The only reference to this that I could find was a few Indian news sites talking about it, like: https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/world/bill-gates-poured-millions-into-attacking-elon-musk-tesla-ceo-tweets-wait-until-you-find-out-what-he-put-in-your-vaccine-397989 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/world/bill-gates-poured-mi... A statement like that is like catnip to most US media, so it would have blown up, and it hasn't, so...
    - captn3m0 4y ago
      Tweet was from a follower pretending to be Musk: https://twitter.com/andItoldyaso/status/1529228707793031168 https://twitter.com/andItoldyaso/status/1529228707793031168
      - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
irthomasthomas 4y ago
"On a beautiful day in May 2015, I drove the 13 hours from my home in Portland, Oregon, to Harris Ranch, California, halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles. At the time, Tesla was touting a battery swap station that could send Tesla drivers on their way in a fully powered vehicle in less than the time it takes to fill up a car with gas. Overtaken by curiosity, I had decided to spend a long Memorial Day weekend in California’s Central Valley to see if Elon Musk’s latest bit of dream weaving could stand up to reality. There, amid the pervasive stench of cow droppings from a nearby feedlot, I discovered that Tesla’s battery swap station was not in fact being made available to owners who regularly drove between California’s two largest cities. Instead, the company was running diesel generators to power additional Superchargers (the kind that take 30 to 60 minutes to recharge a battery) to handle the holiday rush, their exhaust mingling with the unmistakable smell of bullshit. That one decision to go and find the truth underlying Elon Musk’s promises, rather than just take his word for it, changed my life in ways I never could have anticipated. Now, seven long and often lonely years later, the world seems to be understanding what I learned from the experience: Once you stop taking Musk at his word, his heroic popular image evaporates and a far darker reality begins to reveal itself" I made the same discovery when I read the Tesla powerwall patents. A bunch of 18650 batteries and nothing more.
- nathias 4y ago
  what else could it be, 18650s are the best of battery tech we have ...
  - irthomasthomas 4y ago
    The revolutionary battery tech which they so generously "open sourced" the patents for.
    - Gud 4y ago
      18650 is just the cell though. What Tesla brought to the table was their battery babysitting tech. Let’s not pretend Tesla hasn’t given us some excellent engineering.
slight_glitch 4y ago
First I thought it's tesla.com, but it's a freaking anagram!
christkv 4y ago
- SadTrombone 4y ago
  People who make posts like yours should be required to disclose how much Tesla stock they own. > Hopefully the upcoming recession with a collapse in ad revenue will flush out media. This especially speaks volumes about your motives.
  - adastra22 4y ago
    None, except what’s in my broad market index funds. Still willing to call a spade a spade.
  - Splatter 4y ago
    People who make posts like yours should be required to disclose how far in the red they are in their Tesla short position.
    - SadTrombone 4y ago
      Zero. Musk's still an awful person. Hope this helps!
  - christkv 4y ago
    Zero never have owned stock or bought any Tesla products nor do I have any plans. I have a sticker somewhere a friend gave me if that means something.
- adastra22 4y ago
  From now until 2024 there will be PLENTY of outlets willing to support Elon hit pieces, I’m afraid.
- sdoering 4y ago
  The links in the article point to various things the author uncovered over time. You could habe taken one example and shown that the author is overstating or misrepresenting the facts. Instead you choose to call them a "smear merchant". Aren't we on HN to discuss based on presented (and maybe omitted) facts? Or is it to hand out unsubstantiated ad hominems?
oil_baron 4y ago
This is such a typical greeny thing. They’d rather tear down anyone who is trying to help because they don’t do it in a perfectly green all the time way regardless of the economic realities. They are simply not driven by goals and outcomes, instead just riding a moral high horse while not actually caring if the world burns down around them. They are actually worse for the environment in every way. Tesla has struggled to survive as a company economically and the author would prefer the company fail than have to use a little diesel power along the way.

97 points by AndrewDucker 4y ago

This guys been banging on about Tesla / Musk for years. See for example: "What’s Wrong With Tesla? How Much Time Do You Have? By Edward Niedermeyer on February 5, 2010" Meanwhile TSLA is about about 200x since then. Haters gonna hate hate hate...

philistine 4y ago
Is stock price the only valuable thing in life? Just to cite one element, the dispute over the painting plant. That won't have any impact on the stock price, it's too small a thing, but is illegally polluting irrelevant because the stock is going up?
- tim333 4y ago
  Well, obviously not. It was just an illustration Tesla has done well in spite of Niedermeyer's very negative article. Reading the article also makes the "When I First Saw Elon Musk for Who He Really Is" ... "On a beautiful day in May 2015"... shtick seem phony when he links an article he wrote on Musk's bad character in he wrote in 2009. (https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/03/tesla-descends-into-witch-hunt-hell/ https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/03/tesla-descends-int...)

barrysteve 4y ago

People don't really take Elon at his word anyway. They lap up his mystical attitude towards starry eyed goals. He appears to be a really science and tech oriented guy and he is technical but people dont come to hear it. His conversations in the public focus heavily on symbolic action, mysteries of the future and innovation and very little on analyzing fundamental technical challenges. His presentations are like Steve Jobs with a focus on mysticism but the public takes Elon's technical and analytical ability for granted, like a protected trait. None of his fans really want to get into the nitty gritty and his PR strategy seems to be fine with that.

cudgy 4y ago

The tone of the article is enough to immediately make you doubt the veracity of the author of the article. The writing drips of sarcasm and vitriol. The comment about unmuzzling Trump as the reason he wants to spend tens of billions of dollars is complete conjecture and to be frank insulting to the intelligence of the reader. If the author is trying to convince anyone who doesn’t already hate Elon Musk, they failed miserably.

zirpderp 4y ago
I agree that the author failed, but really only in one regard, he didn't call it a cult of personality. Its really just a weird eco-BS-cult that has taken the gap left by traditional religion and inserted itself as part of people's personalities and belief systems, that when attacked for the obvious house of cards that they are, will always jump to defend dear leader at all costs, lest they admit to themselves they were fooled. But hey at least you're in good company. @teslacharts

adastra22 4y ago

Remember folks, it's politics season. If it reads like a hit piece, ask yourself why someone would want this published now.

GoodJokes 4y ago
tablespoon 4y ago
> Remember folks, it's politics season. If it reads like a hit piece, ask yourself why someone would want this published now. Because Elon Musk has been particularly noisy and attention-seeking lately, with the Twitter acquisition drama?
- adastra22 4y ago
  Hardly any more than usual.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    >> Because Elon Musk has been particularly noisy and attention-seeking lately, with the Twitter acquisition drama? > Hardly any more than usual. No, it is definitely more than usual, or at least it's different in a notable way.
brtkdotse 4y ago
Normally, I’d agree. But on the other hand Musk has been working overtime the last few months to wreck his personal brand.
- snovv_crash 4y ago
  Which actions specifically do you think contributed the most here?
  - belltaco 4y ago

FullyFunctional 4y ago

I have bought three Tesla since they first came out. I love the cars, dispute imperfections they are still the best I have driven. But - I’m embarrassed to have any association, however remote. with Musk. There were plenty of warning signs, but it’s wasn’t until Covid (“Silly, it’s just like a flu”) that I couldn’t look away any more. Since then his megalomania has only grown. Where does it end?

TradingPlaces 4y ago
Same here, except just one Tesla. Breaking point for me was “pedo guy”. Elon is one of America’s premiere douchebags, against stiff competition. I imagine there were many Jewish and Black Model-T Ford owners who felt the same way about Henry Ford.
dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago
Now he's up to "You think that is bad, wait until you see what [Bill Gates] has put in the vaccines."
- tpmx 4y ago
  I couldn't find that tweet. Can you? The only reference to this that I could find was a few Indian news sites talking about it, like: https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/world/bill-gates-poured-millions-into-attacking-elon-musk-tesla-ceo-tweets-wait-until-you-find-out-what-he-put-in-your-vaccine-397989 https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/world/bill-gates-poured-mi... A statement like that is like catnip to most US media, so it would have blown up, and it hasn't, so...
  - captn3m0 4y ago
    Tweet was from a follower pretending to be Musk: https://twitter.com/andItoldyaso/status/1529228707793031168 https://twitter.com/andItoldyaso/status/1529228707793031168
    - dkjaudyeqooe 4y ago

irthomasthomas 4y ago

"On a beautiful day in May 2015, I drove the 13 hours from my home in Portland, Oregon, to Harris Ranch, California, halfway between San Francisco and Los Angeles. At the time, Tesla was touting a battery swap station that could send Tesla drivers on their way in a fully powered vehicle in less than the time it takes to fill up a car with gas. Overtaken by curiosity, I had decided to spend a long Memorial Day weekend in California’s Central Valley to see if Elon Musk’s latest bit of dream weaving could stand up to reality. There, amid the pervasive stench of cow droppings from a nearby feedlot, I discovered that Tesla’s battery swap station was not in fact being made available to owners who regularly drove between California’s two largest cities. Instead, the company was running diesel generators to power additional Superchargers (the kind that take 30 to 60 minutes to recharge a battery) to handle the holiday rush, their exhaust mingling with the unmistakable smell of bullshit. That one decision to go and find the truth underlying Elon Musk’s promises, rather than just take his word for it, changed my life in ways I never could have anticipated. Now, seven long and often lonely years later, the world seems to be understanding what I learned from the experience: Once you stop taking Musk at his word, his heroic popular image evaporates and a far darker reality begins to reveal itself" I made the same discovery when I read the Tesla powerwall patents. A bunch of 18650 batteries and nothing more.

nathias 4y ago
what else could it be, 18650s are the best of battery tech we have ...
- irthomasthomas 4y ago
  The revolutionary battery tech which they so generously "open sourced" the patents for.
  - Gud 4y ago
    18650 is just the cell though. What Tesla brought to the table was their battery babysitting tech. Let’s not pretend Tesla hasn’t given us some excellent engineering.

slight_glitch 4y ago

First I thought it's tesla.com, but it's a freaking anagram!

christkv 4y ago

SadTrombone 4y ago
People who make posts like yours should be required to disclose how much Tesla stock they own. > Hopefully the upcoming recession with a collapse in ad revenue will flush out media. This especially speaks volumes about your motives.
- adastra22 4y ago
  None, except what’s in my broad market index funds. Still willing to call a spade a spade.
- Splatter 4y ago
  People who make posts like yours should be required to disclose how far in the red they are in their Tesla short position.
  - SadTrombone 4y ago
    Zero. Musk's still an awful person. Hope this helps!
- christkv 4y ago
  Zero never have owned stock or bought any Tesla products nor do I have any plans. I have a sticker somewhere a friend gave me if that means something.
adastra22 4y ago
From now until 2024 there will be PLENTY of outlets willing to support Elon hit pieces, I’m afraid.
sdoering 4y ago
The links in the article point to various things the author uncovered over time. You could habe taken one example and shown that the author is overstating or misrepresenting the facts. Instead you choose to call them a "smear merchant". Aren't we on HN to discuss based on presented (and maybe omitted) facts? Or is it to hand out unsubstantiated ad hominems?

oil_baron 4y ago

This is such a typical greeny thing. They’d rather tear down anyone who is trying to help because they don’t do it in a perfectly green all the time way regardless of the economic realities. They are simply not driven by goals and outcomes, instead just riding a moral high horse while not actually caring if the world burns down around them. They are actually worse for the environment in every way. Tesla has struggled to survive as a company economically and the author would prefer the company fail than have to use a little diesel power along the way.