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Scalpers abuse the social contract — and abuse access to retailer storefronts — to force themselves in-between the vendor and their customers. They’re rent-see

Scalpers abuse the social contract — and abuse access to retailer storefronts — to force themselves in-between the vendor and their customers. They’re rent-seeking leeches that exacerbate supply issues. They’re not providing a service; they’re interfering with our ability to engage in free exchange with retailers and manufacturers, and doing so through deceptive, dishonest, and immoral practices.

sio8ohPi 4y ago
"They're interfering with our... free exchange with retailers", you say, while literally complaining about someone else's free exchange with retailers.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  The retailers in this context don’t want their business.
seabird 4y ago
They're not forcing you to do anything at all. It's not even close, and I can float a guess that you haven't actually tried to buy a PS5 or any item like it at MSRP because you wouldn't seriously believe what you're saying if you did. I guarantee you that if you have time to burn and subscribe to one of the myriad sources of restock updates, you can get a PS5 at MSRP. I know multiple people who have done it. Just because it's possible doesn't mean that it isn't a pain in the ass. It's so annoying, people pay $200 to not have to do it. If the scalpers didn't exist, it would still be just as much of a pain in the ass, because the scalpers definitionally need somebody to buy everything that they do. The demand isn't erased just because they don't exist. You're going on about how scalpers are abusive, deceptive, dishonest, immoral, rent-seeking leeches and are refusing to engage with the reality that their existence doesn't change anything other than giving you the option to pay $200 and skip the bullshit. I'm not asking you to like them, I'm just telling you that not much would be different if they were gone.
- teakettle42 4y ago
  > They're not forcing you to do anything at all. If I force my way to the front of the queue at every store in town, evade purchasing limits, buy all the baby formula before anyone else can, and then offer to sell it at a premium, I’m absolutely forcing my way in-between the retailer and the customer. That’s not a service. Now, nobody needs to buy a PS5, but the fact that a PS5 isn’t a required to sustain life doesn’t magically transmute scalping into a service. > their existence doesn't change anything other than giving you the option to pay $200 and skip the bullshit They are responsible for the bullshit. Of course it changes things. How is it so hard to understand that someone creating an additional, artificial market barrier to extract rent is also making it harder for anyone else to buy the product in the first place? I signed up with Sony to sit in the queue to buy one PS5. My signup is attached to my PSN account to help prevent scalping. It cost Sony money to implement that queueing system and to fight scalpers. Sony is losing licensing revenue on consoles because scalpers are eating into what would normally be spent purchasing games. Sony is losing customer goodwill because scalpers are forcing themselves in-between Sony and their customers. More of Sony’s customer base is frustrated and more likely to abandon purchasing the product altogether —- even when supply issues are resolved — because they have to compete with scalpers. It’s not a fucking service, and we’d all be better off by extending existing ticket scalping laws and the CFAA to vigorously prosecute these absolute useless low-lifes that should be unceremoniously kicked back into whatever minimum wage gutter they crawled out of.
  - seabird 4y ago
    If you're going to just completely refuse to engage with the three times you've been reminded in this thread that an economically viable scalper's resales definitionally represent the minimum demand for a product, you're either arguing in bad faith or are too pissed about this to think straight, and I'm just wasting my time. Scalping is obviously an emotional topic for you and it has you so wound up that you're saying stupid shit like this: >these absolute useless low-lifes that should be unceremoniously kicked back into whatever minimum wage gutter they crawled out of. If your perception of this situation is that minimum wage "useless low-lifes" should kicked back into the gutter because you have this logically unsound idea that it would be easier to buy a PS5 if scalpers didn't exist, you've lost the plot. Your understanding of the demographic that is doing this is wrong, and even if it wasn't, you have completely uncalled for contempt for a class of people who are trying to do better for themselves (or maybe even just trying to make rent and groceries). If you're going to leave another comment hollering about rent seeking or how scalpers singlehandedly create this problem, but refuse to even acknowledge that you've already been told: >The scalpers are selling them to somebody -- that somebody would have just bought at MSRP and you would still have to do what I mentioned above. >because the scalpers definitionally need somebody to buy everything that they do. The demand isn't erased just because they don't exist. >The fact that scalpers are still buying consoles means they're still selling them. That means if the scalpers didn't exist consoles would still be sold out, it would just be individuals following twitter accounts to spam refresh for a single console instead of 10. I'm just going to ignore it, so you can save yourself the typing. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but it looks a hell of a lot like you don't have interest in a good faith discussion.

sio8ohPi 4y ago

"They're interfering with our... free exchange with retailers", you say, while literally complaining about someone else's free exchange with retailers.

teakettle42 4y ago
The retailers in this context don’t want their business.

seabird 4y ago

They're not forcing you to do anything at all. It's not even close, and I can float a guess that you haven't actually tried to buy a PS5 or any item like it at MSRP because you wouldn't seriously believe what you're saying if you did. I guarantee you that if you have time to burn and subscribe to one of the myriad sources of restock updates, you can get a PS5 at MSRP. I know multiple people who have done it. Just because it's possible doesn't mean that it isn't a pain in the ass. It's so annoying, people pay $200 to not have to do it. If the scalpers didn't exist, it would still be just as much of a pain in the ass, because the scalpers definitionally need somebody to buy everything that they do. The demand isn't erased just because they don't exist. You're going on about how scalpers are abusive, deceptive, dishonest, immoral, rent-seeking leeches and are refusing to engage with the reality that their existence doesn't change anything other than giving you the option to pay $200 and skip the bullshit. I'm not asking you to like them, I'm just telling you that not much would be different if they were gone.

teakettle42 4y ago
> They're not forcing you to do anything at all. If I force my way to the front of the queue at every store in town, evade purchasing limits, buy all the baby formula before anyone else can, and then offer to sell it at a premium, I’m absolutely forcing my way in-between the retailer and the customer. That’s not a service. Now, nobody needs to buy a PS5, but the fact that a PS5 isn’t a required to sustain life doesn’t magically transmute scalping into a service. > their existence doesn't change anything other than giving you the option to pay $200 and skip the bullshit They are responsible for the bullshit. Of course it changes things. How is it so hard to understand that someone creating an additional, artificial market barrier to extract rent is also making it harder for anyone else to buy the product in the first place? I signed up with Sony to sit in the queue to buy one PS5. My signup is attached to my PSN account to help prevent scalping. It cost Sony money to implement that queueing system and to fight scalpers. Sony is losing licensing revenue on consoles because scalpers are eating into what would normally be spent purchasing games. Sony is losing customer goodwill because scalpers are forcing themselves in-between Sony and their customers. More of Sony’s customer base is frustrated and more likely to abandon purchasing the product altogether —- even when supply issues are resolved — because they have to compete with scalpers. It’s not a fucking service, and we’d all be better off by extending existing ticket scalping laws and the CFAA to vigorously prosecute these absolute useless low-lifes that should be unceremoniously kicked back into whatever minimum wage gutter they crawled out of.
- seabird 4y ago
  If you're going to just completely refuse to engage with the three times you've been reminded in this thread that an economically viable scalper's resales definitionally represent the minimum demand for a product, you're either arguing in bad faith or are too pissed about this to think straight, and I'm just wasting my time. Scalping is obviously an emotional topic for you and it has you so wound up that you're saying stupid shit like this: >these absolute useless low-lifes that should be unceremoniously kicked back into whatever minimum wage gutter they crawled out of. If your perception of this situation is that minimum wage "useless low-lifes" should kicked back into the gutter because you have this logically unsound idea that it would be easier to buy a PS5 if scalpers didn't exist, you've lost the plot. Your understanding of the demographic that is doing this is wrong, and even if it wasn't, you have completely uncalled for contempt for a class of people who are trying to do better for themselves (or maybe even just trying to make rent and groceries). If you're going to leave another comment hollering about rent seeking or how scalpers singlehandedly create this problem, but refuse to even acknowledge that you've already been told: >The scalpers are selling them to somebody -- that somebody would have just bought at MSRP and you would still have to do what I mentioned above. >because the scalpers definitionally need somebody to buy everything that they do. The demand isn't erased just because they don't exist. >The fact that scalpers are still buying consoles means they're still selling them. That means if the scalpers didn't exist consoles would still be sold out, it would just be individuals following twitter accounts to spam refresh for a single console instead of 10. I'm just going to ignore it, so you can save yourself the typing. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt but it looks a hell of a lot like you don't have interest in a good faith discussion.