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Where would you go to short crypto? If the answer is "the Blockchain" then your numeraire has as much volatility as your asset. Was anyone signing real delayed

Where would you go to short crypto? If the answer is "the Blockchain" then your numeraire has as much volatility as your asset. Was anyone signing real delayed delivery contracts for Tether with prices denominated in USD?

dgfitz 4y ago
I would be quite interested in the answer to this question. How does one short a coin?
- puchatek 4y ago
  You can short several coins using USDC and Solana's Mango Markets platform. Also supports the other way, i. e. buying on margin. Great way to lose a lot of money fast if you don't know what you're doing.
- pru567 4y ago
  FTX allows you to short some coins, don't know specifically if they allowed you to short LUNA/TERRA.
  - gunshai 4y ago
    Unless cha ges you can't be from the US
- AmericanChopper 4y ago
  Do it at any place that lets you borrow the coin. I’m not especially familiar with the offerings in the market, but I know Binance will let you borrow one coin and stake a different coin as collateral. Borrow the coin you want to short, then sell it, and you now have a short position on that coin.
- bb88 4y ago
  https://www.daytrading.com/cryptocurrency/shorting https://www.daytrading.com/cryptocurrency/shorting
- stormbrew 4y ago
  Is there some specific reason you think coins would be immune to shorting? This sentiment seems to come up frequently, but shorting is something you can do with basically anything that holds a value over time and is (sigh) fungible, because at its core it's just a transactional set of promises ('borrow' asset, sell asset, buy asset again at your target date, 'return' new assets). If anything, the modern round of coins with smart contracts are probably uniquely suited to shorting, or enabling the shorting of other coins.
- puranjay 4y ago
  Most exchanges have some way to short most popular coins Decentralized platforms like DyDx offer leveraged longs/shorts on a lot of popular pairs as well Another way to theoretically short a coin is to borrow a lot of it against a stable asset on any asset lending platform like AAVE
dekervin 4y ago
I read between the lines, that there was a play trying to short reserve assets of the entity behind tether or something.
- carnitine 4y ago
  How would that work? They can just hold the instruments to maturity and it’s all either highly liquid treasuries which would be practically immune to shorting or illiquid commercial paper with no borrow.
  - dekervin 4y ago
    Here is the most detailed explanation of the "plan" I could find online [1]. Let me know what you think of its feasability ! [1] https://www.ledgerinsights.com/hedge-fund-makes-short-wager-against-stablecoin-tether/ https://www.ledgerinsights.com/hedge-fund-makes-short-wager-...
benreesman 4y ago
So to go short a crypto token you’ve actually got a lot of options. If you want to do size call up the nice folks at e.g. Wintermute and borrow from their OTC desk. On a more retail scale you’re sort of gambling on the liquidity of an exchange, but if you want to hedge that buy puts on CoinBase or whatever. The most liquid instrument in which you can go directionally short at retail size is a “perpetual swap”, which is kind of like a future but with important differences that are better explained elsewhere. You can definity short XYZ coin if you want, and you can definitely hedge against the liquidity of the counter party at least roughly.
- djbusby 4y ago
  > differences that are better explained elsewhere. Any pointers?
  - gunshai 4y ago
    If you are in the US and want to user perpetual swaps you are basically SOL. Unless you want to use a decentralized exchange.
    - benreesman 4y ago
      I’m the last person to take any legal advice from, and I don’t personally trade crypto whatsoever, so caveat emptor. I’m not aware of any law that stops you asking a friend to put a trade in on your behalf as long as you pay appropriate taxes. Check with someone who knows before doing it though because I could be totally wrong!
  - benreesman 4y ago
    Any explanation that’s going to fit in an HN comment is going to be oversimplified, but it’s basically a derivative instrument tracking some underlying. It’s paired/netted (ish) so you can go short if someone wants to go long (ish). If the derivative (“perp”) is trading above the underlying then longs pay shorts a fee on some cadence, making long positions progressively less attractive holdings and creating sell pressure. Vice versa. This tends to push the derivative close to the underlying. This has two big advantages and a shitload of problems. The two advantages are: - short sentiment can be expressed without an up-front load, kinda like a put - entering a position is much like a CME future, you don’t have to put up the whole price, just wherever geometric Brownian motion is likely to set you back (“implied leverage”) Used responsibly this isn’t insane, but the ways it can be abused? Think housing never goes down in 2007.
cliftonk 4y ago
You deposit USDC as collateral into dydx (or another derivatives exchange) and then you go short the perpetual (kind of like a future). I made 150% on my account equity shorting Luna when UST fell under 0.95.

dgfitz 4y ago

I would be quite interested in the answer to this question. How does one short a coin?

puchatek 4y ago
You can short several coins using USDC and Solana's Mango Markets platform. Also supports the other way, i. e. buying on margin. Great way to lose a lot of money fast if you don't know what you're doing.
pru567 4y ago
FTX allows you to short some coins, don't know specifically if they allowed you to short LUNA/TERRA.
- gunshai 4y ago
  Unless cha ges you can't be from the US
AmericanChopper 4y ago
Do it at any place that lets you borrow the coin. I’m not especially familiar with the offerings in the market, but I know Binance will let you borrow one coin and stake a different coin as collateral. Borrow the coin you want to short, then sell it, and you now have a short position on that coin.
bb88 4y ago
https://www.daytrading.com/cryptocurrency/shorting https://www.daytrading.com/cryptocurrency/shorting
stormbrew 4y ago
Is there some specific reason you think coins would be immune to shorting? This sentiment seems to come up frequently, but shorting is something you can do with basically anything that holds a value over time and is (sigh) fungible, because at its core it's just a transactional set of promises ('borrow' asset, sell asset, buy asset again at your target date, 'return' new assets). If anything, the modern round of coins with smart contracts are probably uniquely suited to shorting, or enabling the shorting of other coins.
puranjay 4y ago
Most exchanges have some way to short most popular coins Decentralized platforms like DyDx offer leveraged longs/shorts on a lot of popular pairs as well Another way to theoretically short a coin is to borrow a lot of it against a stable asset on any asset lending platform like AAVE

dekervin 4y ago

I read between the lines, that there was a play trying to short reserve assets of the entity behind tether or something.

carnitine 4y ago
How would that work? They can just hold the instruments to maturity and it’s all either highly liquid treasuries which would be practically immune to shorting or illiquid commercial paper with no borrow.
- dekervin 4y ago
  Here is the most detailed explanation of the "plan" I could find online [1]. Let me know what you think of its feasability ! [1] https://www.ledgerinsights.com/hedge-fund-makes-short-wager-against-stablecoin-tether/ https://www.ledgerinsights.com/hedge-fund-makes-short-wager-...

benreesman 4y ago

So to go short a crypto token you’ve actually got a lot of options. If you want to do size call up the nice folks at e.g. Wintermute and borrow from their OTC desk. On a more retail scale you’re sort of gambling on the liquidity of an exchange, but if you want to hedge that buy puts on CoinBase or whatever. The most liquid instrument in which you can go directionally short at retail size is a “perpetual swap”, which is kind of like a future but with important differences that are better explained elsewhere. You can definity short XYZ coin if you want, and you can definitely hedge against the liquidity of the counter party at least roughly.

djbusby 4y ago
> differences that are better explained elsewhere. Any pointers?
- gunshai 4y ago
  If you are in the US and want to user perpetual swaps you are basically SOL. Unless you want to use a decentralized exchange.
  - benreesman 4y ago
    I’m the last person to take any legal advice from, and I don’t personally trade crypto whatsoever, so caveat emptor. I’m not aware of any law that stops you asking a friend to put a trade in on your behalf as long as you pay appropriate taxes. Check with someone who knows before doing it though because I could be totally wrong!
- benreesman 4y ago
  Any explanation that’s going to fit in an HN comment is going to be oversimplified, but it’s basically a derivative instrument tracking some underlying. It’s paired/netted (ish) so you can go short if someone wants to go long (ish). If the derivative (“perp”) is trading above the underlying then longs pay shorts a fee on some cadence, making long positions progressively less attractive holdings and creating sell pressure. Vice versa. This tends to push the derivative close to the underlying. This has two big advantages and a shitload of problems. The two advantages are: - short sentiment can be expressed without an up-front load, kinda like a put - entering a position is much like a CME future, you don’t have to put up the whole price, just wherever geometric Brownian motion is likely to set you back (“implied leverage”) Used responsibly this isn’t insane, but the ways it can be abused? Think housing never goes down in 2007.

cliftonk 4y ago

You deposit USDC as collateral into dydx (or another derivatives exchange) and then you go short the perpetual (kind of like a future). I made 150% on my account equity shorting Luna when UST fell under 0.95.