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There are not uncountably many – we live in a finite world governed by understandable physical and civic laws. There's an actually measurable rate of humans bl

by gojomo 4y ago

There are not uncountably many – we live in a finite world governed by understandable physical and civic laws. There's an actually measurable rate of humans blocking other traffic, and for how long before resolution, and an actually measurable rate of autonomous vehicles blocking other traffic, and for how long before resolved. If the rate for autonomous vehicles is already below that of humans, or rapidly headed there, that's far more important to note than to theorize about other corner-cases. (Also, as a San Francisco driver, I have serious doubts about the "general intelligence" of my fellow drivers. I don't see any reasons to hold autonomous cars to a higher standard – perhaps a much higher standard? – than other cars.)

routerl 4y ago
> There are not uncountably many OP was obviously not using that term mathematically (i.e. the cardinality of the power set of natural numbers), and obviously meant something in the neighborhood of "effectively not countable". And, again, in all but the formal mathematical meaning of the word "countable", many things are not countable (e.g. no one will live long enough to count all the natural numbers). In the real world, assigning an ordinal number to an object/event/thing has a nonzero time cost. And accounting for every situation in software has a much greater cost. > If the rate for autonomous vehicles is already below that of humans, or rapidly headed there, that's far more important to note than to theorize about other corner-cases. Okay, but dangerous human drivers get systematically removed from the streets. Are we doing the same for self-driving cars? In this context, does every Tesla count as the same "driver"? Maybe all Teslas should have their autonomous driving centrally disabled every time one causes an accident, or breaks a law, until that specific issue is fixed. But it would be impossible to run a car company that way, so of course that takes priority over, say, keeping innocents alive, right? /S
- DennisP 4y ago
  > Are we doing the same for self-driving cars? Effectively we are, as long as their developers fix the problems that led to the crash. Change the software and you have a new driver.
  - routerl 4y ago
    And just let them keep driving until that happens? What proof to we have that any of these issues have been solved? And self-driving is a combined hardware/software system, not just software. Certain problems aren't bugs, but limitations of the hardware.

by gojomo 4y ago

routerl 4y ago

> There are not uncountably many OP was obviously not using that term mathematically (i.e. the cardinality of the power set of natural numbers), and obviously meant something in the neighborhood of "effectively not countable". And, again, in all but the formal mathematical meaning of the word "countable", many things are not countable (e.g. no one will live long enough to count all the natural numbers). In the real world, assigning an ordinal number to an object/event/thing has a nonzero time cost. And accounting for every situation in software has a much greater cost. > If the rate for autonomous vehicles is already below that of humans, or rapidly headed there, that's far more important to note than to theorize about other corner-cases. Okay, but dangerous human drivers get systematically removed from the streets. Are we doing the same for self-driving cars? In this context, does every Tesla count as the same "driver"? Maybe all Teslas should have their autonomous driving centrally disabled every time one causes an accident, or breaks a law, until that specific issue is fixed. But it would be impossible to run a car company that way, so of course that takes priority over, say, keeping innocents alive, right? /S

DennisP 4y ago
> Are we doing the same for self-driving cars? Effectively we are, as long as their developers fix the problems that led to the crash. Change the software and you have a new driver.
- routerl 4y ago
  And just let them keep driving until that happens? What proof to we have that any of these issues have been solved? And self-driving is a combined hardware/software system, not just software. Certain problems aren't bugs, but limitations of the hardware.