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Realistically, is there any better alternatives for a modern personal computer? I'm currently running systemd as I don't know better, and haven't hit any issues

Realistically, is there any better alternatives for a modern personal computer? I'm currently running systemd as I don't know better, and haven't hit any issues, but always keep an open mind for all the pieces in my setup, if there is some better alternative that would give me something better. But looking at the list of alternatives for the `init` (https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Init/ https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Init/), it seems like everything stopped updating after 2018, and if that's the case, I'll just go with systemd as it is still receiving updates. Edit: looking at the footer of the wiki, it says "This page was last modified on 17 March 2018" so I guess the jokes on me, the wiki is not being updated very frequently and that's why the release dates are not up to date.

eesmith 4y ago
Yes, https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Special_RecentChanges/ https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Special_RecentCha... shows the last edit on the site was 19 April 2018.
LinuxBender 4y ago
Many of the distros they link to are very much kept up to date. I can vouch for Voidlinux and Alpine Linux. Another one I like that they left off the list of Qubes OS [1] although that needs a fair amount of memory to take full advantage of. [1] - https://www.qubes-os.org/ https://www.qubes-os.org/
flatiron 4y ago
If it ain’t broke… If you are going to use Linux at work it will be system d. I use Linux both at home and work so I use systemd. I’ve had exactly 0 issues with systemd and if systemd has a solution for something (like ntp time or efi booting) I just use that. I understand it’s not everyone’s cup of tea and have nothing against peoples personal decisions. It’s just the ship has sailed regarding systemd regarding that most people use it and it’s the industry standard.
- throw0101a 4y ago
  > If it ain’t broke… And then there's systemd-resolved…
  - vetinari 4y ago
    As if resolving wasn't traditionally broken in Linux and now people are relying on broken behavior.
  - SahAssar 4y ago
    I run resolved and it works for me. That is not to say that is fine for everyone so: resolved and networkd can be replaced if they do not work for you, right? Not sure how it is in ubuntu now (as an example), but when ubuntu started using systemd they did not use either resolved or networkd. They point against systemd would be resolved both being broken and being unable to replace it with another resolver.
    - strictfp 4y ago
      "works" They closed this super-critical bug despite not fixing it, claiming they're making the right decision in their implementation when they in fact misread the spec https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2514 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2514 Yeah, that's right, with resolved you cannot connect to other machines on your local network by specifying their simple names, because it blackholes those requests, and there's nothing you can do about it.
      - drdaeman 4y ago
        > with resolved you cannot connect to other machines on your local network by specifying their simple names Huh? You most certainly can. I mean, somehow "ssh koyomi" works here on my network, no matter if machine I run this on uses system-resolved or unbound or something else. My DHCP server supplies options 119 and 135 and that's all that's necessary to make it work. What you can't is to have a CNAME with a bare hostname i.e. make "foo.example.org" magically resolve to "foo.local" when you're on that particular LAN with "search local" (and $deity knows what if you're not). To be honest, I'm not even sure what's the point of this setup, unless you do split-horizon (but then why not respond with "foo.local." proper?)
nousermane 4y ago
"For a modern personal computer", systemd is pretty much spot-on what you'd want. On the other hand, if you're running a bunch of fast-scaling containers/VMs, and just want init to (re)spawn one (or a handful) of processes, then step aside as quickly as possible, sitting there quietly, reaping zombies - TFA has this page: https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Init/#standalone_init_.28separate_from_configuration.2Fmanagement_of_runlevels.29 https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Init/#standalone_... And there are other alternatives as well, such as: https://github.com/Yelp/dumb-init https://github.com/Yelp/dumb-init https://github.com/krallin/tini https://github.com/krallin/tini
megous 4y ago
There are alternatives to [very many] individual core competencies of systemd. Obviously a direct alternative to a kitchen sink such as systemd would be just another kitchen sink, so there's no such thing like that, that I'm aware of.
gjs278 4y ago
akira2501 4y ago
As long as it keeps working, I'm happy with 'runit'. I'm not sure what needs to be updated. It runs my boot scripts, it starts my service manager. It's been reliable for over 15 years, across hundreds of installs, in a wide variety of contexts. Importantly, it has never created problems for me when trying to rescue a system.
pmoriarty 4y ago
runit works for me... on a modern system. Unlike systemd: - it's nice and simple - it's well documented - it's easy to troubleshoot - it doesn't have it's tentacles in everything That said, I don't run any desktop environments like Gnome or KDE, but just run i3 as my window manager. OpenRC also worked well for me when I was on Gentoo.
mid-kid 4y ago
Right now, nothing is practically "better" than systemd, but replacing init and figuring out all the different decoupled services that make a non-systemd system provide anywhere near the same featureset (and need to be installed separately) is a very interesting exercise on its own, that will teach you why the different bits are important and a bit of linux history. You can replace the init system on just about any linux distro with a bunch of handwritten shell scripts, slackware style, or use any of OpenRC or s6 to provide you with a framework to make it easier, OR, you can use a preconfigured distribution, of which I'd recommend Artix, Alpine, Void or Slackware, and reading into their respective source code. At the end of the day, an init is an init. You don't need a lot of the features systemd provides as a home user, though they don't actively hurt to have either.

eesmith 4y ago

Yes, https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Special_RecentChanges/ https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Special_RecentCha... shows the last edit on the site was 19 April 2018.

LinuxBender 4y ago

Many of the distros they link to are very much kept up to date. I can vouch for Voidlinux and Alpine Linux. Another one I like that they left off the list of Qubes OS [1] although that needs a fair amount of memory to take full advantage of. [1] - https://www.qubes-os.org/ https://www.qubes-os.org/

flatiron 4y ago

If it ain’t broke… If you are going to use Linux at work it will be system d. I use Linux both at home and work so I use systemd. I’ve had exactly 0 issues with systemd and if systemd has a solution for something (like ntp time or efi booting) I just use that. I understand it’s not everyone’s cup of tea and have nothing against peoples personal decisions. It’s just the ship has sailed regarding systemd regarding that most people use it and it’s the industry standard.

throw0101a 4y ago
> If it ain’t broke… And then there's systemd-resolved…
- vetinari 4y ago
  As if resolving wasn't traditionally broken in Linux and now people are relying on broken behavior.
- SahAssar 4y ago
  I run resolved and it works for me. That is not to say that is fine for everyone so: resolved and networkd can be replaced if they do not work for you, right? Not sure how it is in ubuntu now (as an example), but when ubuntu started using systemd they did not use either resolved or networkd. They point against systemd would be resolved both being broken and being unable to replace it with another resolver.
  - strictfp 4y ago
    "works" They closed this super-critical bug despite not fixing it, claiming they're making the right decision in their implementation when they in fact misread the spec https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2514 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2514 Yeah, that's right, with resolved you cannot connect to other machines on your local network by specifying their simple names, because it blackholes those requests, and there's nothing you can do about it.
    - drdaeman 4y ago
      > with resolved you cannot connect to other machines on your local network by specifying their simple names Huh? You most certainly can. I mean, somehow "ssh koyomi" works here on my network, no matter if machine I run this on uses system-resolved or unbound or something else. My DHCP server supplies options 119 and 135 and that's all that's necessary to make it work. What you can't is to have a CNAME with a bare hostname i.e. make "foo.example.org" magically resolve to "foo.local" when you're on that particular LAN with "search local" (and $deity knows what if you're not). To be honest, I'm not even sure what's the point of this setup, unless you do split-horizon (but then why not respond with "foo.local." proper?)

nousermane 4y ago

"For a modern personal computer", systemd is pretty much spot-on what you'd want. On the other hand, if you're running a bunch of fast-scaling containers/VMs, and just want init to (re)spawn one (or a handful) of processes, then step aside as quickly as possible, sitting there quietly, reaping zombies - TFA has this page: https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Init/#standalone_init_.28separate_from_configuration.2Fmanagement_of_runlevels.29 https://without-systemd.org/wiki/index_php/Init/#standalone_... And there are other alternatives as well, such as: https://github.com/Yelp/dumb-init https://github.com/Yelp/dumb-init https://github.com/krallin/tini https://github.com/krallin/tini

megous 4y ago

There are alternatives to [very many] individual core competencies of systemd. Obviously a direct alternative to a kitchen sink such as systemd would be just another kitchen sink, so there's no such thing like that, that I'm aware of.

gjs278 4y ago

akira2501 4y ago

As long as it keeps working, I'm happy with 'runit'. I'm not sure what needs to be updated. It runs my boot scripts, it starts my service manager. It's been reliable for over 15 years, across hundreds of installs, in a wide variety of contexts. Importantly, it has never created problems for me when trying to rescue a system.

pmoriarty 4y ago

runit works for me... on a modern system. Unlike systemd: - it's nice and simple - it's well documented - it's easy to troubleshoot - it doesn't have it's tentacles in everything That said, I don't run any desktop environments like Gnome or KDE, but just run i3 as my window manager. OpenRC also worked well for me when I was on Gentoo.

mid-kid 4y ago

Right now, nothing is practically "better" than systemd, but replacing init and figuring out all the different decoupled services that make a non-systemd system provide anywhere near the same featureset (and need to be installed separately) is a very interesting exercise on its own, that will teach you why the different bits are important and a bit of linux history. You can replace the init system on just about any linux distro with a bunch of handwritten shell scripts, slackware style, or use any of OpenRC or s6 to provide you with a framework to make it easier, OR, you can use a preconfigured distribution, of which I'd recommend Artix, Alpine, Void or Slackware, and reading into their respective source code. At the end of the day, an init is an init. You don't need a lot of the features systemd provides as a home user, though they don't actively hurt to have either.