4 ms·

I think this is true on an individual level, but a lot of high tech innovation is only possible with hundreds of engineers working together full time for years.

I think this is true on an individual level, but a lot of high tech innovation is only possible with hundreds of engineers working together full time for years. Nobody is inventing EUV lithography in their garage, someone had to spend hundreds of millions of dollars assembling the necessary talent and providing the resources needed to get it done. That someone expects a return on their investment, otherwise they will find something else to do with their capital. What we really need is much more strict requirements for what qualifies as a truly unique innovation worthy of patent protection. None of this BS about virtual shopping carts on eCommerce sites, or playable minigames on video game loading screens.

Layke1123 4y ago
https://www.businessinsider.com/how-a-22-year-old-makes-microchips-in-parents-garage-2022-3#:~:text=Sam%20Zeloof%2C%2022%2C%20made%20a,accessible%2C%20according%20to%20Ars%20Technica https://www.businessinsider.com/how-a-22-year-old-makes-micr....
- babypuncher 4y ago
  > Sam Zeloof, a 22-year-old American, produced a chip with 1,200 transistors This is an impressive feat to be sure, but to compare it to modern EUV lithography is like comparing a crossbow to an ICBM
- Layke1123 4y ago
  Why can I not reply to the person below me? Regardless, anyone could do this type of fabrication in their garage given removing the legal and technical barriers that keep EUV technology behind lock and key.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    What that guy is doing in his parents garage is not EUV lithography. He's doing what early IC manufacturers first accomplished in the 60s, only with the benefit of 50 added years of knowledge in the space and decades old equipment that never would have been affordable to the average tinkerer when this technology was cutting edge. The idea that the risk of patent infringement is the only thing preventing him from building a chip comparable to a modern Intel or AMD CPU in his garage today is absurd.
  - stephen_g 4y ago
    That’s not actually true. Setting aside the fact that to build an EUV lithography system costs over one hundred million dollars (a single system ships from ASML in 40 shipping containers and has over 100,000 parts) [1], Sam Zeloof could legally build one tomorrow if he was able - he just wouldn’t be able to sell it unless he licensed patents. 1. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/10/asmls-high-na-euv-lithography-machine-is-set-to-transform-chipmaking.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/10/asmls-high-na-euv-lithog...
    - Layke1123 4y ago
      Exactly. It's not like it's literal magic. It's just knowledge and resources, which should be getting more abundant and cheap, not scarce and expensive.
mateo1 4y ago
I also think a shorter duration and/or a cap on total royalties would be useful. Like 10 years and 10x initial r&d investment, instead of "forever" and "infinite".
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  > I also think a shorter duration and/or a cap on total royalties would be useful. Like 10 years and 10x initial r&d investment, instead of "forever" and "infinite". For what it's worth, patents are limited to a 20 year duration. This is (was) fine in some slower moving industries, but completely ridiculous for something like consumer electronics or software.

Layke1123 4y ago

https://www.businessinsider.com/how-a-22-year-old-makes-microchips-in-parents-garage-2022-3#:~:text=Sam%20Zeloof%2C%2022%2C%20made%20a,accessible%2C%20according%20to%20Ars%20Technica https://www.businessinsider.com/how-a-22-year-old-makes-micr....

babypuncher 4y ago
> Sam Zeloof, a 22-year-old American, produced a chip with 1,200 transistors This is an impressive feat to be sure, but to compare it to modern EUV lithography is like comparing a crossbow to an ICBM
Layke1123 4y ago
Why can I not reply to the person below me? Regardless, anyone could do this type of fabrication in their garage given removing the legal and technical barriers that keep EUV technology behind lock and key.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  What that guy is doing in his parents garage is not EUV lithography. He's doing what early IC manufacturers first accomplished in the 60s, only with the benefit of 50 added years of knowledge in the space and decades old equipment that never would have been affordable to the average tinkerer when this technology was cutting edge. The idea that the risk of patent infringement is the only thing preventing him from building a chip comparable to a modern Intel or AMD CPU in his garage today is absurd.
- stephen_g 4y ago
  That’s not actually true. Setting aside the fact that to build an EUV lithography system costs over one hundred million dollars (a single system ships from ASML in 40 shipping containers and has over 100,000 parts) [1], Sam Zeloof could legally build one tomorrow if he was able - he just wouldn’t be able to sell it unless he licensed patents. 1. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/10/asmls-high-na-euv-lithography-machine-is-set-to-transform-chipmaking.html https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/12/10/asmls-high-na-euv-lithog...
  - Layke1123 4y ago
    Exactly. It's not like it's literal magic. It's just knowledge and resources, which should be getting more abundant and cheap, not scarce and expensive.

mateo1 4y ago

I also think a shorter duration and/or a cap on total royalties would be useful. Like 10 years and 10x initial r&d investment, instead of "forever" and "infinite".

AussieWog93 4y ago
> I also think a shorter duration and/or a cap on total royalties would be useful. Like 10 years and 10x initial r&d investment, instead of "forever" and "infinite". For what it's worth, patents are limited to a 20 year duration. This is (was) fine in some slower moving industries, but completely ridiculous for something like consumer electronics or software.