5 ms·

I've never quite understood why the anti-car crowd is so prone to hyperbole with their criticism of the status quo. "Hellish Landscape", really?

zeristor 4y ago
A city made up of car parks.
eredengrin 4y ago
I might not use that hyperbole myself but if you've ever had to sit through LA traffic day in and day out it's really not that hard to imagine why people get upset about it. Yeah if you live in the middle of nowhere it's a different story.
- decafninja 4y ago
  Different strokes for different folks. To me, the "hellish landscape" is the NYC subway system (arguably the best in the US). While I live in NYC and not LA, I'm a frequent visitor to LA. I'd gladly sit through LA traffic over riding the NYC subway. Sitting in my own personal, clean, climate controlled space, listening to music I enjoy.
  - eredengrin 4y ago
    I've never been to NYC but I never realized how much I would prefer a good public transit system until I visited Seoul. I probably wouldn't use a car much if at all if I lived there. I suspect NYC is still a pretty low bar for what public transit could be, best in the US isn't saying much when most cities have practically nothing to begin with.
    - decafninja 4y ago
      Completely agree. I lived in Seoul for a bit (I'm Korean American) and it is still by far the best subway system I've experienced. I would gladly use Seoul's subway. I only grudgingly use NYC's (and nowadays, I bicycle as much as I can to avoid using it).
      - eredengrin 4y ago
        Ah cool makes sense, thanks for the comparison. I have definitely noticed that outside the obvious downsides of most American public transit (mainly, longer commute, often still stuck in traffic, having to pay close attention to the schedules at all times, etc), the commute options are also often noticeably dirtier or filled with a lot more homeless people who are sometimes not totally there mentally and that's certainly something that would have to be addressed to see mass adoption. Obviously I think public transit should be open to everyone regardless of socioeconomic background but practically speaking it also needs to be palatable for most people, not really sure what the solution would be. Just out of curiosity, have you ever been to Tokyo? I feel I've heard good things about its public transit but have only visited so briefly I didn't get much chance to use it myself.
        decafninja 4y ago
        Yes, have also visited Tokyo a few times. The Tokyo subway is also fantastic, certainly mountains better than NYC’s. But I’d rank Seoul’s as slightly better still. FWIW many discussions that criticize any aspect of NYC’s subway system often gets shut down with “but we have 24/7 service and they don’t”. Personally, I feel 24/7 service is a contributing factor to the NYC subway’s problems.
_dain_ 4y ago
Yes. Really. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ
- BitwiseFool 4y ago
  I'm looking at it from the perspective of what I consider truly hellish. Is suburban sprawl bad, sure. But let's be honest, how does any of what was shown in that video compare to a warzone, a slum in an underdeveloped country, or some polluted Superfund site? When I think "hellscape", I think of this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agbogbloshie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agbogbloshie
  - munk-a 4y ago
    Hyperbole is a literary tool - please don't pedantically pick at my word choice. It doesn't lead to interesting discussion.
    - BitwiseFool 4y ago
      If you're going to use provocative words you should be prepared for some pushback when people challenge the appropriateness of the terms you've chosen.
      - munk-a 4y ago
        Well - there's been an excessive discussion focused on my usage of the term "hellscape" and seemingly no pro-car discussion to my actual comment. It feels quite nitpicky to swoop in to criticize a specific term used without actually discussing what that term was contained within.
        BitwiseFool 4y ago
        I'm not even particularly pro-car. One does not have to disagree with your broader perspective in order to be critic of your word choice. I see your frustration as something that comes with the territory. When you use hyperbole in your rhetoric you risk people taking issue with the specific allusion and proceeding to refute it. Probably because refuting that hyperbole can be seen as diminishing the rest of your argument.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

zeristor 4y ago

A city made up of car parks.

eredengrin 4y ago

I might not use that hyperbole myself but if you've ever had to sit through LA traffic day in and day out it's really not that hard to imagine why people get upset about it. Yeah if you live in the middle of nowhere it's a different story.

decafninja 4y ago
Different strokes for different folks. To me, the "hellish landscape" is the NYC subway system (arguably the best in the US). While I live in NYC and not LA, I'm a frequent visitor to LA. I'd gladly sit through LA traffic over riding the NYC subway. Sitting in my own personal, clean, climate controlled space, listening to music I enjoy.
- eredengrin 4y ago
  I've never been to NYC but I never realized how much I would prefer a good public transit system until I visited Seoul. I probably wouldn't use a car much if at all if I lived there. I suspect NYC is still a pretty low bar for what public transit could be, best in the US isn't saying much when most cities have practically nothing to begin with.
  - decafninja 4y ago
    Completely agree. I lived in Seoul for a bit (I'm Korean American) and it is still by far the best subway system I've experienced. I would gladly use Seoul's subway. I only grudgingly use NYC's (and nowadays, I bicycle as much as I can to avoid using it).
    - eredengrin 4y ago
      Ah cool makes sense, thanks for the comparison. I have definitely noticed that outside the obvious downsides of most American public transit (mainly, longer commute, often still stuck in traffic, having to pay close attention to the schedules at all times, etc), the commute options are also often noticeably dirtier or filled with a lot more homeless people who are sometimes not totally there mentally and that's certainly something that would have to be addressed to see mass adoption. Obviously I think public transit should be open to everyone regardless of socioeconomic background but practically speaking it also needs to be palatable for most people, not really sure what the solution would be. Just out of curiosity, have you ever been to Tokyo? I feel I've heard good things about its public transit but have only visited so briefly I didn't get much chance to use it myself.
      - decafninja 4y ago
        Yes, have also visited Tokyo a few times. The Tokyo subway is also fantastic, certainly mountains better than NYC’s. But I’d rank Seoul’s as slightly better still. FWIW many discussions that criticize any aspect of NYC’s subway system often gets shut down with “but we have 24/7 service and they don’t”. Personally, I feel 24/7 service is a contributing factor to the NYC subway’s problems.

_dain_ 4y ago

Yes. Really. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDXB0CY2tSQ

BitwiseFool 4y ago
I'm looking at it from the perspective of what I consider truly hellish. Is suburban sprawl bad, sure. But let's be honest, how does any of what was shown in that video compare to a warzone, a slum in an underdeveloped country, or some polluted Superfund site? When I think "hellscape", I think of this, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agbogbloshie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agbogbloshie
- munk-a 4y ago
  Hyperbole is a literary tool - please don't pedantically pick at my word choice. It doesn't lead to interesting discussion.
  - BitwiseFool 4y ago
    If you're going to use provocative words you should be prepared for some pushback when people challenge the appropriateness of the terms you've chosen.
    - munk-a 4y ago
      Well - there's been an excessive discussion focused on my usage of the term "hellscape" and seemingly no pro-car discussion to my actual comment. It feels quite nitpicky to swoop in to criticize a specific term used without actually discussing what that term was contained within.
      - BitwiseFool 4y ago
        I'm not even particularly pro-car. One does not have to disagree with your broader perspective in order to be critic of your word choice. I see your frustration as something that comes with the territory. When you use hyperbole in your rhetoric you risk people taking issue with the specific allusion and proceeding to refute it. Probably because refuting that hyperbole can be seen as diminishing the rest of your argument.

deleted 4y ago

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