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> Red isn't a consumer company. How are they anti-consumer? Everything is consumer these days. CNC machines, milling machines, soldering stations, tablesaws, p

> Red isn't a consumer company. How are they anti-consumer? Everything is consumer these days. CNC machines, milling machines, soldering stations, tablesaws, planers, and, yes, high-end cinematic cameras. You're no longer talking about Hollywood and maybe 4 or 5 other big studios leveraging this stuff. Marques Brownlee, Linus Tech Tips, Corridor, and tons of other Youtubers (and I'm sure many more from other platforms) eat these things like candy. If you or I wanted to get into this stuff, we reasonably could with a little financial discipline (and maybe bargaining with our significant other :D). They are unimaginably vulnerable to someone coming along with a platform that accepts any, say, NVME, with some form of "works best with" certification system. That way, if your risk is low ( enthused hobbyist) go with your MLC dumpster diving special, if your risk is high then go with OEM, certified, or better (because there is better storage than what Red offers). Keep in mind that Red have supplanted a stupidly broken industry with a vastly less broken industry, but on the absolute scale they are still pretty fucking stupid. They are living on the time it takes for someone to realize that, given a huge amount of R&D into a sensor (because Red is likely the leading sensor), a more capitalist/competitive approach exists.

detaro 4y ago
> Marques Brownlee, Linus Tech Tips, Corridor, are not consumers but media businesses.
- voidwtf 4y ago
  When did the consumer stop being the ones who consume the product? I’m sure many farmers would consider John Deere’s practices regarding DIY repairs, anti-consumer, as they are the consumers. Any person who might reasonable be considered an end-user of a product, or might buy a type of product might be considered a consumer of that type of product. Anti-consumerism and protectionism do not even require that you be a customer of the company in question, some practices extend beyond the product itself when the company seeks to stifle competition.
- zamalek 4y ago
  That line between "business" and "consumer" is becoming increasingly indistinct. This is the very nature of "influencers." We have every-day-joes/janes setting up multi-thousand dollar machines in their own (or rented) garage for their own, or followers', enjoyment. > are not consumers but media businesses. This idea of yours is extremely out of touch with reality, just like Red are. Those "media businesses" would be nowhere without an engaged audience. The modern audience are participators, not watchers. Commodity 3D printers have succeeded for a reason. People aren't as one-dimensional as they used to be. They take their interests to an extreme degree. It might take a videography/cinematography enthusiast 2 years to save up for a Red, but they will.
  - jrockway 4y ago
    Influencers are businesses, plain and simple. They buy the camera to make a profit. Compare this to someone like me, who also owns expensive cameras, but I have them to take pictures and show my friends. I plan to make $0 from this endeavor. I'm a consumer, not a business.
    - zamalek 4y ago
      And you don't care about the immensely expensive Red SSDs?
      - jrockway 4y ago
        Oh, I shoot stills on Sony equipment, so I just use good old SD cards. And film when I need high resolution ;) I agree that RED is cost-prohibitive for individuals that aren't running a business because of things like the 500% markup on SSDs. That is always the risk of a proprietary ecosystem; kind of like how you can buy 128GB of RAM for your PC for a few hundred dollars, but the same RAM in an Apple computer is $1600. That's just the price of "we guarantee that it will work", and for business use, it makes a lot of sense. For consumers, it kind of sucks, because you feel so close to being able to afford something really cool, but you just can't make the math work. I do understand the pushback; people want to pay for the impressive sensor and not the mind-numbingly-boring SSDs, but they want to make money on both. I am not sure that's strictly consumer unfriendly, but just how they do the financial engineering.
- Teever 4y ago
  Can I ask you a question? Did you actually believe, or even think about the position you're now taking prior to reading the comment thread about it? I'm highly skeptical that someone genuinely holds the position "businesses aren't consumers." I think it's more likely that you're just arbitrarily taking a contrarian position to argue online to pass the time.

detaro 4y ago

> Marques Brownlee, Linus Tech Tips, Corridor, are not consumers but media businesses.

voidwtf 4y ago
When did the consumer stop being the ones who consume the product? I’m sure many farmers would consider John Deere’s practices regarding DIY repairs, anti-consumer, as they are the consumers. Any person who might reasonable be considered an end-user of a product, or might buy a type of product might be considered a consumer of that type of product. Anti-consumerism and protectionism do not even require that you be a customer of the company in question, some practices extend beyond the product itself when the company seeks to stifle competition.
zamalek 4y ago
That line between "business" and "consumer" is becoming increasingly indistinct. This is the very nature of "influencers." We have every-day-joes/janes setting up multi-thousand dollar machines in their own (or rented) garage for their own, or followers', enjoyment. > are not consumers but media businesses. This idea of yours is extremely out of touch with reality, just like Red are. Those "media businesses" would be nowhere without an engaged audience. The modern audience are participators, not watchers. Commodity 3D printers have succeeded for a reason. People aren't as one-dimensional as they used to be. They take their interests to an extreme degree. It might take a videography/cinematography enthusiast 2 years to save up for a Red, but they will.
- jrockway 4y ago
  Influencers are businesses, plain and simple. They buy the camera to make a profit. Compare this to someone like me, who also owns expensive cameras, but I have them to take pictures and show my friends. I plan to make $0 from this endeavor. I'm a consumer, not a business.
  - zamalek 4y ago
    And you don't care about the immensely expensive Red SSDs?
    - jrockway 4y ago
      Oh, I shoot stills on Sony equipment, so I just use good old SD cards. And film when I need high resolution ;) I agree that RED is cost-prohibitive for individuals that aren't running a business because of things like the 500% markup on SSDs. That is always the risk of a proprietary ecosystem; kind of like how you can buy 128GB of RAM for your PC for a few hundred dollars, but the same RAM in an Apple computer is $1600. That's just the price of "we guarantee that it will work", and for business use, it makes a lot of sense. For consumers, it kind of sucks, because you feel so close to being able to afford something really cool, but you just can't make the math work. I do understand the pushback; people want to pay for the impressive sensor and not the mind-numbingly-boring SSDs, but they want to make money on both. I am not sure that's strictly consumer unfriendly, but just how they do the financial engineering.
Teever 4y ago
Can I ask you a question? Did you actually believe, or even think about the position you're now taking prior to reading the comment thread about it? I'm highly skeptical that someone genuinely holds the position "businesses aren't consumers." I think it's more likely that you're just arbitrarily taking a contrarian position to argue online to pass the time.