4 ms·

Terrible bill written by the typical set of tech ignorant senators. The digital yuan is basically a bank with a nice API and should be treated similarly. The

Terrible bill written by the typical set of tech ignorant senators. The digital yuan is basically a bank with a nice API and should be treated similarly. The real solution is to fix our financial system so that transferring USD is cheap, fast and easily done through an API.

esahione 4y ago
It's not about technology. It's about the monopoly of the government as it relates to taxation and money over its land. China would do the same.
- xster 4y ago
  It does. US dollar purchase is subject to an annual limit per person.
  - trompetenaccoun 4y ago
    It's not USD purchase specifically, it's exchanging your RMB for any foreign currency that's restricted. The Communist Party keeps people's money hostage and the reason is very clear: The rich obviously do not trust that they're safe. There is no rule of law, you can be arbitrarily locked up and have your savings taken from you at any time. All it takes for example is a change in leaders, as the Xi purge has shown. So they take their money abroad. To Canada, to the US, the UK and elsewhere. The bill is probably needed but this is a bad look for the US whichever way you view it. I could go into long details but in short the situation we have now with increasing trade restrictions, stock delistings and so forth is the culmination of catastrophically failed policy towards the Chinese regime. The US and other developed countries were completely wrong and naive in the way they dealt with China. In fairness, in the 80s and 90s no one could have foreseen the current development and it was a reasonable assumption that with economic growth the country would liberalize. Even under Hu/Wen, I can see how people could convince themselves into believing increasing economic ties would make things better. Although already back in the late 2000s it was clear that the promise to open up the markets was a lie that never happened. Foreign ownership continued to be restricted, companies were forced into joint ventures (aka "thanks for the blueprints, suckers"), the Yuan control actually got tighter... Western countries plus Japan, Korea and Taiwan made the Communist Party rich and powerful. Without all that foreign investment and technology transfer Mainland China would still be a broken backwater. Corporations in the developed world had gold glittering in their eyes when they looked at China and it's massive population. The Chinese regime found that one fatal flaw in free market capitalist systems: While economically they work, there is no incentive for the corporate leadership to do what's best for the country. Those who spearheaded the outsourcing of jobs and factories profited massively. As did the shareholders initially. It only came at the cost of the future of all the less wealthy people in the respective countries. Plus now they have a nuclear power pouring more and more billions into their military, preparing for war, while running concentration camps and allying with Russia and Iran.
toomuchtodo 4y ago
Currency controls are the purview of nation states. Sometimes preventing the currency from leaving, sometimes from using the currency of an adversary. The digital yuan is a form of Chinese soft power projection (as the US dollar is similarly), and it's not entirely unreasonable to dissuade its use (depending on your geopolitical views).
- satao 4y ago
  right. but then when other countries want to get away from the us dollar they are either invaded or sanctioned to hell.
  - car_analogy 4y ago
    That doesn't make not wanting to come under China's soft power any less rational. "You invaded someone else therefore you should allow yourself to be invaded."
  - PKop 4y ago
    You seem to be implying being hypocritical isn't the optimal geopolitical strategy. Akin to saying, "it's bad when you do things that make you powerful, but good when we do them" which is unquestionably true from the perspective of any individual great power.
  - ben_w 4y ago
    Yes, because the people in charge the dollars take the geopolitical view that dollars are better than every other currency. (One reason I could never be a politician is that I can’t empathise with nationalism like that; I recognise it, but it feels a bit dirty to me).
    - car_analogy 4y ago
      That's not nationalism - that's imperialism.
- rmbyrro 4y ago
  The US Dollar is quite a strong power projection tool. They can shut a country financial system down at any moment. I bet they are afraid of being victims of what they know it's possible with such powers.
keyeug555 4y ago
I don’t know all the details about digital yuan but USA has enjoyed an exorbitant luxury by being the world’s reserve currency. I can see how senators with more political and macro economic experience than I would favor this ban. I’m curious to learn what the realpolitik behind this really is.
jessaustin 4y ago
Are these the same geniuses who "attacked" RUB? They "damaged" it so much it's up 25% over USD this year and the central bank has had to slash interest rates... I'm sure the Chinese are very concerned. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/business/russia-rates-ruble.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/business/russia-rates-rub...
- sebzim4500 4y ago
  Yeah but no one is allowed to sell it.
  - jessaustin 4y ago
    ...no one is allowed to sell it. Temporarily true in certain jurisdictions, but OTOH one may with RUB purchase oil, natural gas, palladium, nickel, copper, steel, aluminum, wheat, fertilizer, etc. So, those who need e.g. catalytic converters, especially if they live on the 70% of the planet where there are no limits on RUB whatsoever, will probably continue to use it.
  - somenameforme 4y ago
    The currency controls have been repeatedly loosened, though it's difficult to try to find what the latest rules are. Russia's now growing concerned that the Ruble is growing too strong. That can hurt exports and exporters, as it means [relatively] higher domestic costs + lower profits.
toss1 4y ago
If you think it is nothing more than a "bank with a nice API", I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you. It is a specific CCP initiative to project power and track both its citizens and foreigners and undermine the power of western democracies and the power of the Euro and Dollar. We were fools to not resist the offer to give away strategic manufacturing technologies and capabilities to China in exchange for cheap labor and a few quarters of profit. We'd be even greater fools to allow this next camel's nose under the tent (Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...). Even if the senators are typically Luddites, this is a very good move and cannot happen soon enough.
RappingBoomer 4y ago
the american elites wanna keep americans on the low-interest plantation of america

esahione 4y ago

It's not about technology. It's about the monopoly of the government as it relates to taxation and money over its land. China would do the same.

xster 4y ago
It does. US dollar purchase is subject to an annual limit per person.
- trompetenaccoun 4y ago
  It's not USD purchase specifically, it's exchanging your RMB for any foreign currency that's restricted. The Communist Party keeps people's money hostage and the reason is very clear: The rich obviously do not trust that they're safe. There is no rule of law, you can be arbitrarily locked up and have your savings taken from you at any time. All it takes for example is a change in leaders, as the Xi purge has shown. So they take their money abroad. To Canada, to the US, the UK and elsewhere. The bill is probably needed but this is a bad look for the US whichever way you view it. I could go into long details but in short the situation we have now with increasing trade restrictions, stock delistings and so forth is the culmination of catastrophically failed policy towards the Chinese regime. The US and other developed countries were completely wrong and naive in the way they dealt with China. In fairness, in the 80s and 90s no one could have foreseen the current development and it was a reasonable assumption that with economic growth the country would liberalize. Even under Hu/Wen, I can see how people could convince themselves into believing increasing economic ties would make things better. Although already back in the late 2000s it was clear that the promise to open up the markets was a lie that never happened. Foreign ownership continued to be restricted, companies were forced into joint ventures (aka "thanks for the blueprints, suckers"), the Yuan control actually got tighter... Western countries plus Japan, Korea and Taiwan made the Communist Party rich and powerful. Without all that foreign investment and technology transfer Mainland China would still be a broken backwater. Corporations in the developed world had gold glittering in their eyes when they looked at China and it's massive population. The Chinese regime found that one fatal flaw in free market capitalist systems: While economically they work, there is no incentive for the corporate leadership to do what's best for the country. Those who spearheaded the outsourcing of jobs and factories profited massively. As did the shareholders initially. It only came at the cost of the future of all the less wealthy people in the respective countries. Plus now they have a nuclear power pouring more and more billions into their military, preparing for war, while running concentration camps and allying with Russia and Iran.

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Currency controls are the purview of nation states. Sometimes preventing the currency from leaving, sometimes from using the currency of an adversary. The digital yuan is a form of Chinese soft power projection (as the US dollar is similarly), and it's not entirely unreasonable to dissuade its use (depending on your geopolitical views).

satao 4y ago
right. but then when other countries want to get away from the us dollar they are either invaded or sanctioned to hell.
- car_analogy 4y ago
  That doesn't make not wanting to come under China's soft power any less rational. "You invaded someone else therefore you should allow yourself to be invaded."
- PKop 4y ago
  You seem to be implying being hypocritical isn't the optimal geopolitical strategy. Akin to saying, "it's bad when you do things that make you powerful, but good when we do them" which is unquestionably true from the perspective of any individual great power.
- ben_w 4y ago
  Yes, because the people in charge the dollars take the geopolitical view that dollars are better than every other currency. (One reason I could never be a politician is that I can’t empathise with nationalism like that; I recognise it, but it feels a bit dirty to me).
  - car_analogy 4y ago
    That's not nationalism - that's imperialism.
rmbyrro 4y ago
The US Dollar is quite a strong power projection tool. They can shut a country financial system down at any moment. I bet they are afraid of being victims of what they know it's possible with such powers.

keyeug555 4y ago

I don’t know all the details about digital yuan but USA has enjoyed an exorbitant luxury by being the world’s reserve currency. I can see how senators with more political and macro economic experience than I would favor this ban. I’m curious to learn what the realpolitik behind this really is.

jessaustin 4y ago

Are these the same geniuses who "attacked" RUB? They "damaged" it so much it's up 25% over USD this year and the central bank has had to slash interest rates... I'm sure the Chinese are very concerned. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/business/russia-rates-ruble.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/26/business/russia-rates-rub...

sebzim4500 4y ago
Yeah but no one is allowed to sell it.
- jessaustin 4y ago
  ...no one is allowed to sell it. Temporarily true in certain jurisdictions, but OTOH one may with RUB purchase oil, natural gas, palladium, nickel, copper, steel, aluminum, wheat, fertilizer, etc. So, those who need e.g. catalytic converters, especially if they live on the 70% of the planet where there are no limits on RUB whatsoever, will probably continue to use it.
- somenameforme 4y ago
  The currency controls have been repeatedly loosened, though it's difficult to try to find what the latest rules are. Russia's now growing concerned that the Ruble is growing too strong. That can hurt exports and exporters, as it means [relatively] higher domestic costs + lower profits.

toss1 4y ago

If you think it is nothing more than a "bank with a nice API", I've got some oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you. It is a specific CCP initiative to project power and track both its citizens and foreigners and undermine the power of western democracies and the power of the Euro and Dollar. We were fools to not resist the offer to give away strategic manufacturing technologies and capabilities to China in exchange for cheap labor and a few quarters of profit. We'd be even greater fools to allow this next camel's nose under the tent (Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...). Even if the senators are typically Luddites, this is a very good move and cannot happen soon enough.

RappingBoomer 4y ago

the american elites wanna keep americans on the low-interest plantation of america