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You could check out https://www.envkey.com https://www.envkey.com (disclaimer: I'm the founder). Our goal is to simplify this as much as possible. We use clien

You could check out https://www.envkey.com https://www.envkey.com (disclaimer: I'm the founder). Our goal is to simplify this as much as possible. We use client-side end-to-end encryption so you don't have to trust a third party, and pricing on our paid plans is based on number of users, not number of secrets.

philsnow 4y ago
Having helped build the production secret management bits at Airbnb [0], I would encourage most people to buy, not build. It was a large task and I'm 95% sure we didn't add more value than the cost of all the people working on it for as long as it took, compared to buying a solution. Just like the rest of Airbnb started before VPCs were GA and thus required a large engineering investment to move everything to VPCs, we started on the secret management stuff before there were a lot of good other options available (though arguably Hashicorp Vault was around and mature enough at the time, and would have been the best alternative). I haven't looked at envkey for production use but I've definitely considered it for home use since it's just so deliciously simple. [0] https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/production-secret-management-at-airbnb-ad230e1bc0f6 https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/production-secret-mana...
eins1234 4y ago
I was looking at this with great interest, until I looked at the pricing and found out the lowest hosted pricing tier starts at $150/month. I know there's a free "community" hosted version, but I'm not sure what the differences is outside of the limits and support, and I'd prefer to see the pricing scale up a bit more gently than 0 -> $150 as soon as I reach the limits of the free offering.
- danenania 4y ago
  Perhaps you'll see this if you get notified of replies: per your suggestion, we have now introduced a lower tier in between the free tier and the ~150/month tier.
- eins1234 4y ago
  Also, the list of limitations on the self-hosted open-source version reads like something that is only offered to tick an open-source checkbox: https://docs-v2.envkey.com/docs/self-hosting-open-source-envkey https://docs-v2.envkey.com/docs/self-hosting-open-source-env... Very clearly cut down to the point where it's not feasible for anything outside of toy projects.
  - danenania 4y ago
    What would need to change for you to feel that's not the case? The open source version is fully functional and can definitely scale beyond toy projects. You don't get high availability, multi-instance clustering, auto-scaling, multi-region failover etc. built in, but if you put it on a beefy host it can easily handle a large number of users and a very high request rate. The way I think of it is we give you the fully functional server, but charge for advanced infrastructure and a few advanced features (SSO/Teams). It's comparable to the open source version of a tool like Vault where you get the server, but need to implement advanced stuff like HA, auto-scaling, networking, etc. yourself, or else use a paid version.
    - eins1234 4y ago
      I would consider HA/clustering/auto-scaling to be table stakes for something as mission critical as secrets management. As far as I can see, this is fully available in the open-source version of Vault: https://learn.hashicorp.com/tutorials/vault/ha-with-consul https://learn.hashicorp.com/tutorials/vault/ha-with-consul
      - eins1234 4y ago
        Even though I would personally choose to use the hosted version, I still consider the availability of an open-source solution to be a great hedge against vendor lock-in/failure. This is only true if I can be confident that I can replicate the hosted setup with the open-source version if I invested the necessary resources. Otherwise, the existence of an open-source option adds little value. In fact it can turn me off from a product since it'd seem like they're using open source as a marketing hook with no real intention of empowering users to be able to actually move off their hosted platforms.
- danenania 4y ago
  Thanks for the feedback. We're considering some changes here: specifically, reducing the limits of the free tier a bit and then adding another tier in the $50/mo range between the free tier and the $150/mo tier. Would that be a better fit for you?
detaro 4y ago
Security software that puts SSO support behind a high pricing tier (and as far as I can tell has no other way to get e.g. any kind of 2FA) is a very bad look. > EnvKey Business Self-Hosted runs in an AWS account you control. You can use it with any host or cloud provider. Is a bit confusing, that section should be clarified a bit. Does it mean that you can run the systems using it somewhere else? Does it mean other variants of EnvKey can be run everywhere? ...
- danenania 4y ago
  Perhaps you'll see this if you get notified of replies: per your suggestion, we have now added SSO to a lower-priced tier.
  - detaro 4y ago
    nice, thank you!
- danenania 4y ago
  On price-gating SSO, I'm sympathetic to your argument. I'll consider adding it to the lower-priced tier. 2FA is already effectively built-in to EnvKey through device-based authorization. A user can only sign in to EnvKey from an authorized device, so an email account compromise won't be enough for an attacker to gain access--they would also need access to an authorized device. A passphrase can optionally be supplied on top of this for an additional factor (though it's unnecessary if you're already using OS-level disk encryption). It's basically the same model as SSH. And imo it's superior to SMS or app-based 2FA (perhaps not token-based, which I'm open to adding). It handles the main threat models (phishing/email account compromise) with far better UX and convenience. "Is a bit confusing, that section should be clarified a bit. Does it mean that you can run the systems using it somewhere else? Does it mean other variants of EnvKey can be run everywhere? ..." I agree this could be less confusing. The EnvKey host server runs in your AWS account, but that doesn't mean that apps you integrate EnvKey with are in any way limited to AWS. You could have your apps running in Heroku, GCP, Azure, or whatever, and integrate with your self-hosted EnvKey installation for configuration and secrets management with no problem. Is that clearer?

philsnow 4y ago

Having helped build the production secret management bits at Airbnb [0], I would encourage most people to buy, not build. It was a large task and I'm 95% sure we didn't add more value than the cost of all the people working on it for as long as it took, compared to buying a solution. Just like the rest of Airbnb started before VPCs were GA and thus required a large engineering investment to move everything to VPCs, we started on the secret management stuff before there were a lot of good other options available (though arguably Hashicorp Vault was around and mature enough at the time, and would have been the best alternative). I haven't looked at envkey for production use but I've definitely considered it for home use since it's just so deliciously simple. [0] https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/production-secret-management-at-airbnb-ad230e1bc0f6 https://medium.com/airbnb-engineering/production-secret-mana...

eins1234 4y ago

I was looking at this with great interest, until I looked at the pricing and found out the lowest hosted pricing tier starts at $150/month. I know there's a free "community" hosted version, but I'm not sure what the differences is outside of the limits and support, and I'd prefer to see the pricing scale up a bit more gently than 0 -> $150 as soon as I reach the limits of the free offering.

danenania 4y ago
Perhaps you'll see this if you get notified of replies: per your suggestion, we have now introduced a lower tier in between the free tier and the ~150/month tier.
eins1234 4y ago
Also, the list of limitations on the self-hosted open-source version reads like something that is only offered to tick an open-source checkbox: https://docs-v2.envkey.com/docs/self-hosting-open-source-envkey https://docs-v2.envkey.com/docs/self-hosting-open-source-env... Very clearly cut down to the point where it's not feasible for anything outside of toy projects.
- danenania 4y ago
  What would need to change for you to feel that's not the case? The open source version is fully functional and can definitely scale beyond toy projects. You don't get high availability, multi-instance clustering, auto-scaling, multi-region failover etc. built in, but if you put it on a beefy host it can easily handle a large number of users and a very high request rate. The way I think of it is we give you the fully functional server, but charge for advanced infrastructure and a few advanced features (SSO/Teams). It's comparable to the open source version of a tool like Vault where you get the server, but need to implement advanced stuff like HA, auto-scaling, networking, etc. yourself, or else use a paid version.
  - eins1234 4y ago
    I would consider HA/clustering/auto-scaling to be table stakes for something as mission critical as secrets management. As far as I can see, this is fully available in the open-source version of Vault: https://learn.hashicorp.com/tutorials/vault/ha-with-consul https://learn.hashicorp.com/tutorials/vault/ha-with-consul
    - eins1234 4y ago
      Even though I would personally choose to use the hosted version, I still consider the availability of an open-source solution to be a great hedge against vendor lock-in/failure. This is only true if I can be confident that I can replicate the hosted setup with the open-source version if I invested the necessary resources. Otherwise, the existence of an open-source option adds little value. In fact it can turn me off from a product since it'd seem like they're using open source as a marketing hook with no real intention of empowering users to be able to actually move off their hosted platforms.
danenania 4y ago
Thanks for the feedback. We're considering some changes here: specifically, reducing the limits of the free tier a bit and then adding another tier in the $50/mo range between the free tier and the $150/mo tier. Would that be a better fit for you?

detaro 4y ago

Security software that puts SSO support behind a high pricing tier (and as far as I can tell has no other way to get e.g. any kind of 2FA) is a very bad look. > EnvKey Business Self-Hosted runs in an AWS account you control. You can use it with any host or cloud provider. Is a bit confusing, that section should be clarified a bit. Does it mean that you can run the systems using it somewhere else? Does it mean other variants of EnvKey can be run everywhere? ...

danenania 4y ago
Perhaps you'll see this if you get notified of replies: per your suggestion, we have now added SSO to a lower-priced tier.
- detaro 4y ago
  nice, thank you!
danenania 4y ago
On price-gating SSO, I'm sympathetic to your argument. I'll consider adding it to the lower-priced tier. 2FA is already effectively built-in to EnvKey through device-based authorization. A user can only sign in to EnvKey from an authorized device, so an email account compromise won't be enough for an attacker to gain access--they would also need access to an authorized device. A passphrase can optionally be supplied on top of this for an additional factor (though it's unnecessary if you're already using OS-level disk encryption). It's basically the same model as SSH. And imo it's superior to SMS or app-based 2FA (perhaps not token-based, which I'm open to adding). It handles the main threat models (phishing/email account compromise) with far better UX and convenience. "Is a bit confusing, that section should be clarified a bit. Does it mean that you can run the systems using it somewhere else? Does it mean other variants of EnvKey can be run everywhere? ..." I agree this could be less confusing. The EnvKey host server runs in your AWS account, but that doesn't mean that apps you integrate EnvKey with are in any way limited to AWS. You could have your apps running in Heroku, GCP, Azure, or whatever, and integrate with your self-hosted EnvKey installation for configuration and secrets management with no problem. Is that clearer?