4 ms·

I'd say it's the opposite. The city has a few bad spots, but overall it's quite nice. The big problem is the lack of housing, which is arguably driven by the wa

I'd say it's the opposite. The city has a few bad spots, but overall it's quite nice. The big problem is the lack of housing, which is arguably driven by the way that Prop 13 warps economic incentives.

vondur 4y ago
I wonder how much residential property is still under Prop 13? My guess is that it's declined quite a bit in the last 20 years or so.
- amscanne 4y ago
  It still applies to all residential property. On sale, the tax rate is set to 1% of the sale price, and increases are limited to 2% per year. This creates the incentive to not sell, even if you have way too much house (e.g. empty nesters) because you may significantly increase your tax burden by downsizing.
- dilyevsky 4y ago
  You’re probably thinking of rent control? Prop 13 applies to every property including commercial. You can also transfer reduced tax to your heirs or to another property of yours
  - vondur 4y ago
    Some houses that haven't changed hands since Prop 13 was enacted pay really low taxes. New houses and those that have changed hands since then are not under the really low tax rate. Yes, property taxes in California are lower in rates, but in general, the high value of property will still mean large tax property bills.
macksd 4y ago
Walking through even the financial district these days, it's not at all unusual for people to be stepping over unconscious bodies on the sidewalk, and to see homeless people walking around with syringes tucked behind their ear. In fact when I was in a higher-end office building a few weeks ago no one was wearing a mask indoors, and they put masks on to go outside, presumably because of the smells and things you're exposed to there. It's like COVID isn't even the dirtiest thing they're afraid of anymore.
zumu 4y ago
The large and very visible homeless and vagrant population is the biggest issue. There may be a relationship to the housing shortage, but I have a hard timing believing if rents were 50% cheaper, these people wouldn't still be on the streets.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
carapace 4y ago
I've been here almost half a century now. The city has turned to shit. Prop 13 is part of the problem, but there are lots of confounding factors. FWIW, the lack of housing is largely artificial: there are lots of empty units, they are just priced out of reach of the folks who really need them. I live in Park Merced, on my block there are at least a dozen empty homes, yet a few blocks away there are families living in RV's parked around Lake Merced. The corporation that owns PM won't lower the rents. I don't know why, but I suspect that doing so would mess with things like the appraisal value of the property? Last month a group of squatters moved into the townhouse across the street from my house. We thought new tenants had moved in, but a couple of days later the staff were there throwing them out. (The squatters had changed the lock on the front door!) A staff member told me that this same group has been breaking into units all over the property. The police were called, but they never showed up. Last week a van parked in the garage here was broken into and items were stolen. We've been here a quarter of a century and that has never happened before. There are video cameras in the garage, but again, the police did nothing. That's before you get to the tent camps, the rampant and open drug abuse (literally folks shooting up on the sidewalk), the raw lawless anarchy that the Tenderloin has become, etc. Unless you have a shit-ton of money and can afford to live in one of the nice enclaves SF is a shitty town. It breaks my heart to admit it, I grew up here and I (used to) really love it here, but the city that SF has become is sad and dangerous.
- xedrac 4y ago
  I've been to SF proper only twice (but many times to San Jose). In my opinion, the only things going for it are the weather, coastal locality, sycamores, and interesting terrain. Otherwise it just felt really trashy to me. I wouldn't move there even if I was offered an extra $100k/yr.
  - carapace 4y ago
    Yeah, it's a nice place to visit, there are still a lot of wonderful and interesting things here (The Japanese Tea Garden, world-class museums, etc.), but you wouldn't want to live here.

vondur 4y ago

I wonder how much residential property is still under Prop 13? My guess is that it's declined quite a bit in the last 20 years or so.

amscanne 4y ago
It still applies to all residential property. On sale, the tax rate is set to 1% of the sale price, and increases are limited to 2% per year. This creates the incentive to not sell, even if you have way too much house (e.g. empty nesters) because you may significantly increase your tax burden by downsizing.
dilyevsky 4y ago
You’re probably thinking of rent control? Prop 13 applies to every property including commercial. You can also transfer reduced tax to your heirs or to another property of yours
- vondur 4y ago
  Some houses that haven't changed hands since Prop 13 was enacted pay really low taxes. New houses and those that have changed hands since then are not under the really low tax rate. Yes, property taxes in California are lower in rates, but in general, the high value of property will still mean large tax property bills.

macksd 4y ago

Walking through even the financial district these days, it's not at all unusual for people to be stepping over unconscious bodies on the sidewalk, and to see homeless people walking around with syringes tucked behind their ear. In fact when I was in a higher-end office building a few weeks ago no one was wearing a mask indoors, and they put masks on to go outside, presumably because of the smells and things you're exposed to there. It's like COVID isn't even the dirtiest thing they're afraid of anymore.

zumu 4y ago

The large and very visible homeless and vagrant population is the biggest issue. There may be a relationship to the housing shortage, but I have a hard timing believing if rents were 50% cheaper, these people wouldn't still be on the streets.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

carapace 4y ago

I've been here almost half a century now. The city has turned to shit. Prop 13 is part of the problem, but there are lots of confounding factors. FWIW, the lack of housing is largely artificial: there are lots of empty units, they are just priced out of reach of the folks who really need them. I live in Park Merced, on my block there are at least a dozen empty homes, yet a few blocks away there are families living in RV's parked around Lake Merced. The corporation that owns PM won't lower the rents. I don't know why, but I suspect that doing so would mess with things like the appraisal value of the property? Last month a group of squatters moved into the townhouse across the street from my house. We thought new tenants had moved in, but a couple of days later the staff were there throwing them out. (The squatters had changed the lock on the front door!) A staff member told me that this same group has been breaking into units all over the property. The police were called, but they never showed up. Last week a van parked in the garage here was broken into and items were stolen. We've been here a quarter of a century and that has never happened before. There are video cameras in the garage, but again, the police did nothing. That's before you get to the tent camps, the rampant and open drug abuse (literally folks shooting up on the sidewalk), the raw lawless anarchy that the Tenderloin has become, etc. Unless you have a shit-ton of money and can afford to live in one of the nice enclaves SF is a shitty town. It breaks my heart to admit it, I grew up here and I (used to) really love it here, but the city that SF has become is sad and dangerous.

xedrac 4y ago
I've been to SF proper only twice (but many times to San Jose). In my opinion, the only things going for it are the weather, coastal locality, sycamores, and interesting terrain. Otherwise it just felt really trashy to me. I wouldn't move there even if I was offered an extra $100k/yr.
- carapace 4y ago
  Yeah, it's a nice place to visit, there are still a lot of wonderful and interesting things here (The Japanese Tea Garden, world-class museums, etc.), but you wouldn't want to live here.