4 ms·

How do you subtract the number of deaths caused by the vaccine itself?

by ipaddr 4y ago

addled 4y ago
Then you can look at the excess deaths statistics from the time the pandemic started, but before vaccines became available. It paints a similar picture. A lot more people "than usual" dying in 2020 (before vaccines in US).
- forcejdhdk 4y ago
  And that could have nothing to do at all with the more deadly alpha and delta strains that are now extinct?
  - mrtesthah 4y ago
    "Omicron Deaths in U.S. Exceed Delta’s Peak as Covid-19 Optimism Rises in Europe" https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-deltas-peak-as-covid-19-optimism-rises-in-europe-11643201653 https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-de...
    - moistly 4y ago
      Omicron is less deadly on an individual basis by, IIRC, about 60%; it causes more deaths on a population basis because it infects vastly more people.
      - mrtesthah 4y ago
        Sure, but in the context of where excess deaths come from, it's the total number of deaths we're interested in.
mrtesthah 4y ago
Excess deaths correlate with covid infection levels — not with vaccination rates. If the vaccine caused excess deaths then we would expect to see that number increasing starting in 2021 — instead deaths have been decreasing, and only went up temporarily during subsequent covid infection waves (and the great majority of those cases unsurprising may bring the unvaccinated). https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X%2821%2900011-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-19... https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1495025615178768384?s=20&t=oGYbiNnJPQz3sxaixYJgCw https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1495025615178768384?s=...
- mrtesthah 4y ago
  typo from autocorrect: *and the great majority of those cases unsurprisingly were among the unvaccinated
Angostura 4y ago
Very easily because in every developed country, vaccine-related illness was tracked with extraordinary care. By last summer in the UK, for example there were 9 investigated cases where vaccination had lead to deaths https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/ https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died... … and yes the ONS is independent of government

How do you subtract the number of deaths caused by the vaccine itself?

by ipaddr 4y ago

How do you subtract the number of deaths caused by the vaccine itself?

Then you can look at the excess deaths statistics from the time the pandemic started, but before vaccines became available. It paints a similar picture. A lot more people "than usual" dying in 2020 (before vaccines in US).

forcejdhdk 4y ago
And that could have nothing to do at all with the more deadly alpha and delta strains that are now extinct?
- mrtesthah 4y ago
  "Omicron Deaths in U.S. Exceed Delta’s Peak as Covid-19 Optimism Rises in Europe" https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-deltas-peak-as-covid-19-optimism-rises-in-europe-11643201653 https://www.wsj.com/articles/omicron-deaths-in-u-s-exceed-de...
  - moistly 4y ago
    Omicron is less deadly on an individual basis by, IIRC, about 60%; it causes more deaths on a population basis because it infects vastly more people.
    - mrtesthah 4y ago
      Sure, but in the context of where excess deaths come from, it's the total number of deaths we're interested in.

mrtesthah 4y ago

Excess deaths correlate with covid infection levels — not with vaccination rates. If the vaccine caused excess deaths then we would expect to see that number increasing starting in 2021 — instead deaths have been decreasing, and only went up temporarily during subsequent covid infection waves (and the great majority of those cases unsurprising may bring the unvaccinated). https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-193X%2821%2900011-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanam/article/PIIS2667-19... https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1495025615178768384?s=20&t=oGYbiNnJPQz3sxaixYJgCw https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1495025615178768384?s=...

mrtesthah 4y ago
typo from autocorrect: *and the great majority of those cases unsurprisingly were among the unvaccinated

Angostura 4y ago

Very easily because in every developed country, vaccine-related illness was tracked with extraordinary care. By last summer in the UK, for example there were 9 investigated cases where vaccination had lead to deaths https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died-as-a-result-of-a-covid-19-vaccine/ https://blog.ons.gov.uk/2021/10/04/how-many-people-have-died... … and yes the ONS is independent of government