5 ms·

Tissue fibrosis has been a leading factor and cause in mortality in developed nations far longer than covid has existed. Neither what you said or your parent s

by toolz 4y ago

Tissue fibrosis has been a leading factor and cause in mortality in developed nations far longer than covid has existed. Neither what you said or your parent said is false, but there does seem to be an awful lot of exaggerating the effects of covid.

qbasic_forever 4y ago
COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/s0422-third-leading-cause.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/s0422-third-leading-... "For the second year, COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer." It is no exaggeration to say that COVID is a significant cause of death and threat to the health of the public. Only two things kill more people a year--heart disease and cancer. Not car accidents, not gun violence, not suicides... all those kill far fewer people than COVID.
- spookthesunset 4y ago
  > COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now And yet two years into this I've yet to hear a solid answer to "is it 'died with' or 'died from'?" It's kind of funny that there is no answer to that because it dramatically changes how to interpret your figure. All these "experts" just skirt right around that question and asking it gets you labeled as a horrible alt-right grandma killer (which isn't hyperbole either, I've literally been called this multiple times).
  - DennisP 4y ago
    The number of total deaths has gone up a little more than the number of known covid deaths. You do the math.
    - toolz 4y ago
      in countries that avoided hugely disruptive lockdowns the excess mortality barely moved at all. Sweden, a noteable example because the media attacked them for a year, was the worst faring non-lockdown country in the world and they still don't even break top 30 countries excess deaths during covid. Not only that, but in 2021 sweden had the lowest excess mortality in the entirety of Europe. So let's not pretend the math is simple here. Social disruption is lethal to vulnerable demographics. Even daylight savings time changes notoriously cause a large surge in heart attacks.
      - DennisP 4y ago
        Ok. And how many covid deaths did they report? Was it also low, or did they report lots of covid deaths while their overall death rate magically stayed the same? Only the latter fits your "death with covid" scenario. In the US, it seems rather unlikely that (a) doctors all over the US report a certain number of deaths that they say were caused by covid, and (b) we have about that many excess deaths, BUT (c) the excess deaths were from other causes and just happened to match the number of reported covid deaths.
        notahacker 4y ago
        Excess deaths which align with reported deaths with COVID not just in aggregate numbers, but in spikes. Spikes which also postdate spikes in infection by the roughly 30 days from infection to death observed in acute COVID patients (but don't align at all well with other things like lockdowns and economic downturns) People die with cancer too, but few people are quite perverse enough to take that as evidence that the threat posed by cancer is exaggerated. Possibly the only comparable level of denial about the causal relationship between a well known ailment and people who don't normally die being likely to die afterwards for reasons well-explained by how that ailment affects the body I can think of is HIV/AIDs, and it's not coincidental that one's highly politicised too.
      - qbasic_forever 4y ago
        Your view of what happened in Sweden does not match the reality that their approach to COVID-19 caused excessive death and suffering: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5 Compared to the other nordic countries nextdoor to them Sweden had more death and worse outcomes overall.

by toolz 4y ago

qbasic_forever 4y ago

COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now: https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/s0422-third-leading-cause.html https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2022/s0422-third-leading-... "For the second year, COVID-19 was the third leading cause of death after heart disease and cancer." It is no exaggeration to say that COVID is a significant cause of death and threat to the health of the public. Only two things kill more people a year--heart disease and cancer. Not car accidents, not gun violence, not suicides... all those kill far fewer people than COVID.

spookthesunset 4y ago
> COVID has been the #3 cause of overall death in the US for two years now And yet two years into this I've yet to hear a solid answer to "is it 'died with' or 'died from'?" It's kind of funny that there is no answer to that because it dramatically changes how to interpret your figure. All these "experts" just skirt right around that question and asking it gets you labeled as a horrible alt-right grandma killer (which isn't hyperbole either, I've literally been called this multiple times).
- DennisP 4y ago
  The number of total deaths has gone up a little more than the number of known covid deaths. You do the math.
  - toolz 4y ago
    in countries that avoided hugely disruptive lockdowns the excess mortality barely moved at all. Sweden, a noteable example because the media attacked them for a year, was the worst faring non-lockdown country in the world and they still don't even break top 30 countries excess deaths during covid. Not only that, but in 2021 sweden had the lowest excess mortality in the entirety of Europe. So let's not pretend the math is simple here. Social disruption is lethal to vulnerable demographics. Even daylight savings time changes notoriously cause a large surge in heart attacks.
    - DennisP 4y ago
      Ok. And how many covid deaths did they report? Was it also low, or did they report lots of covid deaths while their overall death rate magically stayed the same? Only the latter fits your "death with covid" scenario. In the US, it seems rather unlikely that (a) doctors all over the US report a certain number of deaths that they say were caused by covid, and (b) we have about that many excess deaths, BUT (c) the excess deaths were from other causes and just happened to match the number of reported covid deaths.
      - notahacker 4y ago
        Excess deaths which align with reported deaths with COVID not just in aggregate numbers, but in spikes. Spikes which also postdate spikes in infection by the roughly 30 days from infection to death observed in acute COVID patients (but don't align at all well with other things like lockdowns and economic downturns) People die with cancer too, but few people are quite perverse enough to take that as evidence that the threat posed by cancer is exaggerated. Possibly the only comparable level of denial about the causal relationship between a well known ailment and people who don't normally die being likely to die afterwards for reasons well-explained by how that ailment affects the body I can think of is HIV/AIDs, and it's not coincidental that one's highly politicised too.
    - qbasic_forever 4y ago
      Your view of what happened in Sweden does not match the reality that their approach to COVID-19 caused excessive death and suffering: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-022-01097-5 Compared to the other nordic countries nextdoor to them Sweden had more death and worse outcomes overall.