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> We have developed an unshakable faith in technology to address our problems. The concern I have, especially WRT climate change, is this: We are not tackling

> We have developed an unshakable faith in technology to address our problems. The concern I have, especially WRT climate change, is this: We are not tackling climate change. Yes, we solved ozone shrinkage, looming food shortages, deadly air pollution, acid rain (sorta), etc. all with technology. But we ACTUALLY tackled those problems; we banned lead gasoline, banned CFCs, starting scrubbing sulphur dioxide, improved crop yields.

epistasis 4y ago
The frustrating thing is that we have all the tools to solve climate change, today. The only question is choosing to use them. And since we know that these new tools have learning curves that are becoming cheaper, we have prettt good estimates that the switchover will be a cheaper energy solution than fossil fuels, with greater energy independence for more countries, leading to fewer wars! But current fossil fuel suppliers have fantastic political control of the US, and they sow seeds of doubt and fear and uncertainty in the population, and buy off politicians to prevent market solutions from coming to the market. Much less the great amount of industrial policy needed to scale what we need to scale faster to meet the needs of climate change.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- worik 4y ago
  Me too. The peaceful options that maintain our society and cultures are running out Terrifying
jotm 4y ago
Everyone thinks they want something to be done. The simple reason why few things are getting done is that it would seriously affect people's lives. Right now, rising prices are a massive boon for the environment. Less consumption, more investment in better technology. But people are angry, and at this rate, will start raging. It may be quite a turning point, if we're not mostly under authoritarian governments by 2030 I'll be happy. As a collective, we simply do not want to solve climate change. Unless it magically does not affect our lives, then yeah, [whatever group, just not me] can go for it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- worik 4y ago
  > The simple reason why few things are getting done is that it would seriously affect people's lives Not true. The average person has very little control over their own patterns of consumption. The problems are systemic, and changing those will make a few very rich people and organisations a bit less (in some cases a lot less) rich. This is a story of power where the powerful are burning the world and do not care.
  - seoaeu 4y ago
    Systematic changes are needed but it is naive to think that those systematic changes won’t impact everyday people
bryanlarsen 4y ago
> We are not tackling climate change. That is absolutely not true. 2 examples in the US: the $7000 EV tax rebate, 80GW of new renewable energy per year. And the US is one of the worst developed nations, Europe and others are doing a lot more. Current estimates are that we are on track for 2.5 degrees C of climate change, which would have been 6 degrees if we did nothing. We're doing something. Just not enough.
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  Sounds about the same trend as in Europe on a smaller scale: upper-middle folks get tax benefits associated with their Tesla purchases. So they get to pat themselves on the back for being able to maintain the same lifestyle as before. Meanwhile the very eco-friendly single-use wooden utensils that I last used was Made in China. Just putting smiley faces on the gas display when it starts to drop low.
- worik 4y ago
  > We're doing something. Just not enough. That is correct. We are not tackling climate change
formerkrogemp 4y ago
Again, the ozone layer isn't "solved." It's "recovering." Go ask any reasonable person in Australia or New Zealand if the ozone is 'solved.' We haven’t fixed the problem[1], although I agree there is some worthwhile pat-on-the-back for fixing the cause. The ozone hole is still there decades later, and will be there for decades more. In New Zealand, they are affected by the extra UV radiation, and strong sunblock can be important. The effect by UV should give us more understanding and sympathy for countries that will be drowned by climate change, even though our government isn't doing jack shit. [1] NASA website says “Scientists have already seen the first definitive proof of ozone recovery, observing a 20 percent decrease in ozone depletion during the winter months from 2005 to 2016.” “Models predict that the Antarctic ozone layer will mostly recover by 2040.” Also see synthetic image of 2021 hole: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2021/2021-antarctic-ozo https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2021/2021-antarctic-ozo...
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  > Again, the ozone layer isn't "solved." It's "recovering." Sure. But it's recovering, acid rain isn't solved either, but it's getting better. Climate change is getting worse, every, single, year.
UncleOxidant 4y ago
> Yes, we solved ... looming food shortages I think we're about to stress test this hypothesis via the Ukraine war.
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  I think you are right, one of the "bread baskets" is being razed as I type this.

epistasis 4y ago

The frustrating thing is that we have all the tools to solve climate change, today. The only question is choosing to use them. And since we know that these new tools have learning curves that are becoming cheaper, we have prettt good estimates that the switchover will be a cheaper energy solution than fossil fuels, with greater energy independence for more countries, leading to fewer wars! But current fossil fuel suppliers have fantastic political control of the US, and they sow seeds of doubt and fear and uncertainty in the population, and buy off politicians to prevent market solutions from coming to the market. Much less the great amount of industrial policy needed to scale what we need to scale faster to meet the needs of climate change.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
worik 4y ago
Me too. The peaceful options that maintain our society and cultures are running out Terrifying

jotm 4y ago

Everyone thinks they want something to be done. The simple reason why few things are getting done is that it would seriously affect people's lives. Right now, rising prices are a massive boon for the environment. Less consumption, more investment in better technology. But people are angry, and at this rate, will start raging. It may be quite a turning point, if we're not mostly under authoritarian governments by 2030 I'll be happy. As a collective, we simply do not want to solve climate change. Unless it magically does not affect our lives, then yeah, [whatever group, just not me] can go for it.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
worik 4y ago
> The simple reason why few things are getting done is that it would seriously affect people's lives Not true. The average person has very little control over their own patterns of consumption. The problems are systemic, and changing those will make a few very rich people and organisations a bit less (in some cases a lot less) rich. This is a story of power where the powerful are burning the world and do not care.
- seoaeu 4y ago
  Systematic changes are needed but it is naive to think that those systematic changes won’t impact everyday people

bryanlarsen 4y ago

> We are not tackling climate change. That is absolutely not true. 2 examples in the US: the $7000 EV tax rebate, 80GW of new renewable energy per year. And the US is one of the worst developed nations, Europe and others are doing a lot more. Current estimates are that we are on track for 2.5 degrees C of climate change, which would have been 6 degrees if we did nothing. We're doing something. Just not enough.

avgcorrection 4y ago
Sounds about the same trend as in Europe on a smaller scale: upper-middle folks get tax benefits associated with their Tesla purchases. So they get to pat themselves on the back for being able to maintain the same lifestyle as before. Meanwhile the very eco-friendly single-use wooden utensils that I last used was Made in China. Just putting smiley faces on the gas display when it starts to drop low.
worik 4y ago
> We're doing something. Just not enough. That is correct. We are not tackling climate change

formerkrogemp 4y ago

Again, the ozone layer isn't "solved." It's "recovering." Go ask any reasonable person in Australia or New Zealand if the ozone is 'solved.' We haven’t fixed the problem[1], although I agree there is some worthwhile pat-on-the-back for fixing the cause. The ozone hole is still there decades later, and will be there for decades more. In New Zealand, they are affected by the extra UV radiation, and strong sunblock can be important. The effect by UV should give us more understanding and sympathy for countries that will be drowned by climate change, even though our government isn't doing jack shit. [1] NASA website says “Scientists have already seen the first definitive proof of ozone recovery, observing a 20 percent decrease in ozone depletion during the winter months from 2005 to 2016.” “Models predict that the Antarctic ozone layer will mostly recover by 2040.” Also see synthetic image of 2021 hole: https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2021/2021-antarctic-ozo https://www.nasa.gov/feature/goddard/2021/2021-antarctic-ozo...

Ensorceled 4y ago
> Again, the ozone layer isn't "solved." It's "recovering." Sure. But it's recovering, acid rain isn't solved either, but it's getting better. Climate change is getting worse, every, single, year.

UncleOxidant 4y ago

> Yes, we solved ... looming food shortages I think we're about to stress test this hypothesis via the Ukraine war.

Ensorceled 4y ago
I think you are right, one of the "bread baskets" is being razed as I type this.