5 ms·

I think a big - maybe huge and insurmountable - barrier to this is the sheer amount of junk attention sinks and outright wrong information on exactly the same m

I think a big - maybe huge and insurmountable - barrier to this is the sheer amount of junk attention sinks and outright wrong information on exactly the same medium that the good, free information is on.

stouset 4y ago
I remember being naïve and thinking the Internet would solve the issue of spreading high-quality information far and wide. What I (and I think many others) completely neglected to realize was that it also made misinformation exponentially easier to spread.
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  Misinformation is not making people worse programmers or worse engineers or worse doctors or worse lawyers at the same rate (or higher) that good information is making more people better. Misinformation is mostly affecting a relatively small portion (~10%) of the population that is predisposed to believe conspiracy. It's not like your BiL who thinks Lizard People are running the world would've won the Nobel prize in Physics if it weren't for that Facebook post by your aunt that rotted his brain. Information as a whole is good (so far).
- stickfigure 4y ago
  I think the misinformation risks are overstated. Qanon-ers are a tiny part of the population. Even antivaxers are a distinct minority. Good information wins out, even if the process is not perfect.
  - esrauch 4y ago
    Are there more Qanon-ers or Coursera users though? Even if the risks are overstated (which I'm not sure about) it seems like the amount of quality learning happening online rounds to zero. Even narrowly, I'm not sure that more true information about vaccines is spread online than false information, partly because I think it's actually pretty low amount of true information being spread. Ten years ago there was a lot of optimism that moocs we're going to bring education to the masses, make $40k/year tuition entirely obsolete, but that seems to basically have entirely failed.
    - stickfigure 4y ago
      I think you're defining "quality learning" too narrowly. Coursera, Kahn Academy, et al are great but for real-world practical learning nothing beats the millions of videos on youtube on how to change the headlight on your 1998 Toyota Tercel or how to build a drip irrigation system or how to install DD-WRT on your old router or how to cook birria or how to operate a grigri. It's amazing living with what seems like all human knowledge on tap. We haven't quite reached the point where you can call out "Tank, I need a pilot program for a B-212 helicopter" but damn it sure gets closer every year.
      - esrauch 4y ago
        Maybe I'm jaded but my understanding is that even if we broaden to "useful content" instead of "quality learning" and include things like "diy bookbinding" YouTube videos, that the amount of time spent on conspiracies, memes, celebrity gossip type content is consumed at orders of magnitude higher rate than the "useful" content even on YouTube, and then Instagram/Facebook/TikTok that divide is so wide that there probably is more consumption of TOS violating content than educational content. It's still great that useful content is there for those who want it, and arguably good that it is subsidized by the junk, but it's not like "useful content" is keeping the lights on for YouTube.
        stickfigure 4y ago
        > it's not like "useful content" is keeping the lights on for YouTube. I still feel like you're being overly critical. There's a huge variety of content out there that appeals to a broad array of folks. "Useful" is highly subjective. I pay for Youtube premium. My qanon-espousing mother (sigh) won't even log in to youtube. I couldn't even begin to speculate which content generates the most revenue - do you have any statistics?
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    This would be more comforting if Qanon-ers weren't getting elected to congress. And a small number of anti-vaxers is more than enough to undermine herd immunity. The anti-vaxxer case is quite illuminating actually because anti-vax sentiment has seemingly only increased as the internet has become more popular. Good information does not win out in all cases.
    - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
      > And a small number of anti-vaxers is more than enough to undermine herd immunity. Why? The vaccine isn't very effective in preventing transmission of Omicron (only ~40%). Anti-vaxxers are not the thing preventing Covid from ending at this point. I mean - sure, with a different virus where the vaccine is close to 100% effective at preventing transmission or the R0 is not much higher than 1. But not with this virus. Why are anti-vaxxers getting elected to congress any worse than people who believe in Lizard People getting elected to congress?

stouset 4y ago

I remember being naïve and thinking the Internet would solve the issue of spreading high-quality information far and wide. What I (and I think many others) completely neglected to realize was that it also made misinformation exponentially easier to spread.

onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
Misinformation is not making people worse programmers or worse engineers or worse doctors or worse lawyers at the same rate (or higher) that good information is making more people better. Misinformation is mostly affecting a relatively small portion (~10%) of the population that is predisposed to believe conspiracy. It's not like your BiL who thinks Lizard People are running the world would've won the Nobel prize in Physics if it weren't for that Facebook post by your aunt that rotted his brain. Information as a whole is good (so far).
stickfigure 4y ago
I think the misinformation risks are overstated. Qanon-ers are a tiny part of the population. Even antivaxers are a distinct minority. Good information wins out, even if the process is not perfect.
- esrauch 4y ago
  Are there more Qanon-ers or Coursera users though? Even if the risks are overstated (which I'm not sure about) it seems like the amount of quality learning happening online rounds to zero. Even narrowly, I'm not sure that more true information about vaccines is spread online than false information, partly because I think it's actually pretty low amount of true information being spread. Ten years ago there was a lot of optimism that moocs we're going to bring education to the masses, make $40k/year tuition entirely obsolete, but that seems to basically have entirely failed.
  - stickfigure 4y ago
    I think you're defining "quality learning" too narrowly. Coursera, Kahn Academy, et al are great but for real-world practical learning nothing beats the millions of videos on youtube on how to change the headlight on your 1998 Toyota Tercel or how to build a drip irrigation system or how to install DD-WRT on your old router or how to cook birria or how to operate a grigri. It's amazing living with what seems like all human knowledge on tap. We haven't quite reached the point where you can call out "Tank, I need a pilot program for a B-212 helicopter" but damn it sure gets closer every year.
    - esrauch 4y ago
      Maybe I'm jaded but my understanding is that even if we broaden to "useful content" instead of "quality learning" and include things like "diy bookbinding" YouTube videos, that the amount of time spent on conspiracies, memes, celebrity gossip type content is consumed at orders of magnitude higher rate than the "useful" content even on YouTube, and then Instagram/Facebook/TikTok that divide is so wide that there probably is more consumption of TOS violating content than educational content. It's still great that useful content is there for those who want it, and arguably good that it is subsidized by the junk, but it's not like "useful content" is keeping the lights on for YouTube.
      - stickfigure 4y ago
        > it's not like "useful content" is keeping the lights on for YouTube. I still feel like you're being overly critical. There's a huge variety of content out there that appeals to a broad array of folks. "Useful" is highly subjective. I pay for Youtube premium. My qanon-espousing mother (sigh) won't even log in to youtube. I couldn't even begin to speculate which content generates the most revenue - do you have any statistics?
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  This would be more comforting if Qanon-ers weren't getting elected to congress. And a small number of anti-vaxers is more than enough to undermine herd immunity. The anti-vaxxer case is quite illuminating actually because anti-vax sentiment has seemingly only increased as the internet has become more popular. Good information does not win out in all cases.
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    > And a small number of anti-vaxers is more than enough to undermine herd immunity. Why? The vaccine isn't very effective in preventing transmission of Omicron (only ~40%). Anti-vaxxers are not the thing preventing Covid from ending at this point. I mean - sure, with a different virus where the vaccine is close to 100% effective at preventing transmission or the R0 is not much higher than 1. But not with this virus. Why are anti-vaxxers getting elected to congress any worse than people who believe in Lizard People getting elected to congress?