5 ms·

The issue is mostly the timeline. "recharging" your petrol car is a few orders of magnitude faster than an EV. If I'm doing a long drive of 100 miles, I now nee

The issue is mostly the timeline. "recharging" your petrol car is a few orders of magnitude faster than an EV. If I'm doing a long drive of 100 miles, I now need to make sure I recharge before coming back to make sure I'm not stranded, since unlike a petrol car, if I run out of battery charge, I can't just have a friend drive out with a gallon of battery to get me going again.

maccard 4y ago
Well that's not what the parent criticised, it was the range. It's not a replacement that you can treat exactly the same way but it does have other advantages. One, you don't need to detour to refuel before you leave. I don't know about you, but my nearest gas station is about a 10 minute drive in the opposite direction of where I want to go when I'm driving any distance trips, and always has 10-20 minute queues on Friday afternoons/ weekend mornings. > If I'm doing a long drive of 100 miles, I now need to make sure I recharge before coming back to make sure I'm not stranded. If your car has a range of 220 miles, you can do a 200 mile round trip without recharging in between. If 100 miles is considered a long drive for you then an EV is almost guaranteed to be good enough in range for your normal usage. If you're driving 250 miles or so in a one trip, you're likely stopping at some point along the way for 20-30 minutes _anyway_. > I can't just have a friend drive out with a gallon of battery to get me going again. Which friends of yours would you call to drive 100 miles to give you a fuel top up if you ran out on the way? Frankly if one my friends called and told me they ran out of petrol 90 minutes away from me and they wanted me to come rescue me I'd help them call for recovery, not drive 3 hours and go get them
- noirbot 4y ago
  Sure, but range and timeline to refill that range are intimately linked. You can think of it as "time spend refueling per mile driven". My current ICE car, I spend maybe 5 minutes refueling every 300 miles. Looking at the spec for the VW ID.4, the fast charging mode they highlight is 70 miles in 10 minutes. There's certainly advantages in being able to get in charge on your EV while you're in a shop or otherwise, but that requires ubiquitous infrastructure that's only just becoming a thing in the US. EVs, for good reason, are mostly optimized for smaller trips where you top-up the battery after. If you're doing a trip that's beyond the range of the car, then you have to factor in the recharge time to go the rest of the required distance. > If your car has a range of 220 miles, you can do a 200 mile round trip without recharging in between. That may be true, but I don't know if I'd trust the range estimate to be that accurate. And yes, I'd likely just stop to charge somewhere before coming back, but that's the point - I'd need to make sure I'm going for dinner somewhere with a charger, or that the friend I'm visiting has a way to let me charge. It's not insurmountable, but it's a new wrinkle when gas stations are everywhere for the most part. I, likewise, don't have a convenient gas station near where I live, but that's not an issue, since I can just stop once I'm on the highway at the cheapest price I see. That's not really an option in an EV. If you don't top up before a longer trip, you'll just have a bad time. > Which friends of yours would you call to drive 100 miles ... I'd help them call for recovery. I feel like you've entirely missed the point. I'm not trying to compare what my friends are willing to do for me. As far as I know, I can't get anyone, friend or professional, to re-charge an EV by the side of the road. At very least, I need someone who is specifically prepared to do so. The odds that the auto shop in whatever small town I've run out of charge near has the equipment to drive out and recharge me seems low, but maybe that's more common that I expect?
ageitgey 4y ago
Filling up a gas car is faster, but it's really not that much difference in real life usage. I have a VW ID.3 (an electric hatchback). It can easily do a 100 mile round trip without worrying about running out. And if you go further, the car will just navigate you to the nearest rapid charger if it thinks you need charging to comfortably finish the trip. The car software makes it pretty hard to run out. You get back up to 80% charge in like 20 minutes on a 150kw rapid charger. Caveat: This is in the UK where things are pretty dense and it take some real effort to run out of charge and ignore all the car's warnings without being near some kind of charging point.
- noirbot 4y ago
  Sure, but that caveat is pretty dang important. I'm in a part of the US where it's not hard to be on a highway where there's 10 miles between exits, and some of those exits won't even have a petrol station. I'm planning a road trip this summer that will easily be over 3000 miles, with many stretches through national parks or just barren desert where even my petrol car is going to require me to remember to refuel before I proceed. Or if I want to go camping, I need to make sure there's either a charger in whatever small town is near the campsite, or make sure I have the charge for a full round trip. I know a friend of mine with a full long-range Tesla literally carries all the cables to work out how to charge from a basic outlet because his family lives out in the country far from any charger, so often the only way he can get back to town reliably is to unplug an appliance at his family's house and run the cabling out the window to where he's parked his Tesla in the yard to make sure he can get home.
  - maccard 4y ago
    > I'm planning a road trip this summer that will easily be over 3000 miles For a comparison, my annual mileage, including 1-2 driving holidays a year is about 4000 miles. > many stretches through national parks or just barren desert where even my petrol car is going to require me to remember to refuel before I proceed. Are any of those stretches longer than 300 miles without any refuels? Why is it ok to refuel and potentially run the entire range of your gas car, but not your EV? > I know a friend of mine with a full long-range Tesla literally carries all the cables to work And? Are you judging him for being prepared? I can make slights about people who drive with litres of water and foil blankets in case they get stuck in the wilderness, but that doesn't mean that they're not completely correct in being prepared for the situations they're facing. Maybe an EV isn't for you. But for people who don't drive the width of the continental US on a vacation or do spontaneous driving trips that are greater than the range of a petrol car, (which I'd wager are far more common) they are.

maccard 4y ago

Well that's not what the parent criticised, it was the range. It's not a replacement that you can treat exactly the same way but it does have other advantages. One, you don't need to detour to refuel before you leave. I don't know about you, but my nearest gas station is about a 10 minute drive in the opposite direction of where I want to go when I'm driving any distance trips, and always has 10-20 minute queues on Friday afternoons/ weekend mornings. > If I'm doing a long drive of 100 miles, I now need to make sure I recharge before coming back to make sure I'm not stranded. If your car has a range of 220 miles, you can do a 200 mile round trip without recharging in between. If 100 miles is considered a long drive for you then an EV is almost guaranteed to be good enough in range for your normal usage. If you're driving 250 miles or so in a one trip, you're likely stopping at some point along the way for 20-30 minutes _anyway_. > I can't just have a friend drive out with a gallon of battery to get me going again. Which friends of yours would you call to drive 100 miles to give you a fuel top up if you ran out on the way? Frankly if one my friends called and told me they ran out of petrol 90 minutes away from me and they wanted me to come rescue me I'd help them call for recovery, not drive 3 hours and go get them

noirbot 4y ago
Sure, but range and timeline to refill that range are intimately linked. You can think of it as "time spend refueling per mile driven". My current ICE car, I spend maybe 5 minutes refueling every 300 miles. Looking at the spec for the VW ID.4, the fast charging mode they highlight is 70 miles in 10 minutes. There's certainly advantages in being able to get in charge on your EV while you're in a shop or otherwise, but that requires ubiquitous infrastructure that's only just becoming a thing in the US. EVs, for good reason, are mostly optimized for smaller trips where you top-up the battery after. If you're doing a trip that's beyond the range of the car, then you have to factor in the recharge time to go the rest of the required distance. > If your car has a range of 220 miles, you can do a 200 mile round trip without recharging in between. That may be true, but I don't know if I'd trust the range estimate to be that accurate. And yes, I'd likely just stop to charge somewhere before coming back, but that's the point - I'd need to make sure I'm going for dinner somewhere with a charger, or that the friend I'm visiting has a way to let me charge. It's not insurmountable, but it's a new wrinkle when gas stations are everywhere for the most part. I, likewise, don't have a convenient gas station near where I live, but that's not an issue, since I can just stop once I'm on the highway at the cheapest price I see. That's not really an option in an EV. If you don't top up before a longer trip, you'll just have a bad time. > Which friends of yours would you call to drive 100 miles ... I'd help them call for recovery. I feel like you've entirely missed the point. I'm not trying to compare what my friends are willing to do for me. As far as I know, I can't get anyone, friend or professional, to re-charge an EV by the side of the road. At very least, I need someone who is specifically prepared to do so. The odds that the auto shop in whatever small town I've run out of charge near has the equipment to drive out and recharge me seems low, but maybe that's more common that I expect?

ageitgey 4y ago

Filling up a gas car is faster, but it's really not that much difference in real life usage. I have a VW ID.3 (an electric hatchback). It can easily do a 100 mile round trip without worrying about running out. And if you go further, the car will just navigate you to the nearest rapid charger if it thinks you need charging to comfortably finish the trip. The car software makes it pretty hard to run out. You get back up to 80% charge in like 20 minutes on a 150kw rapid charger. Caveat: This is in the UK where things are pretty dense and it take some real effort to run out of charge and ignore all the car's warnings without being near some kind of charging point.

noirbot 4y ago
Sure, but that caveat is pretty dang important. I'm in a part of the US where it's not hard to be on a highway where there's 10 miles between exits, and some of those exits won't even have a petrol station. I'm planning a road trip this summer that will easily be over 3000 miles, with many stretches through national parks or just barren desert where even my petrol car is going to require me to remember to refuel before I proceed. Or if I want to go camping, I need to make sure there's either a charger in whatever small town is near the campsite, or make sure I have the charge for a full round trip. I know a friend of mine with a full long-range Tesla literally carries all the cables to work out how to charge from a basic outlet because his family lives out in the country far from any charger, so often the only way he can get back to town reliably is to unplug an appliance at his family's house and run the cabling out the window to where he's parked his Tesla in the yard to make sure he can get home.
- maccard 4y ago
  > I'm planning a road trip this summer that will easily be over 3000 miles For a comparison, my annual mileage, including 1-2 driving holidays a year is about 4000 miles. > many stretches through national parks or just barren desert where even my petrol car is going to require me to remember to refuel before I proceed. Are any of those stretches longer than 300 miles without any refuels? Why is it ok to refuel and potentially run the entire range of your gas car, but not your EV? > I know a friend of mine with a full long-range Tesla literally carries all the cables to work And? Are you judging him for being prepared? I can make slights about people who drive with litres of water and foil blankets in case they get stuck in the wilderness, but that doesn't mean that they're not completely correct in being prepared for the situations they're facing. Maybe an EV isn't for you. But for people who don't drive the width of the continental US on a vacation or do spontaneous driving trips that are greater than the range of a petrol car, (which I'd wager are far more common) they are.