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Interestingly I wonder the exact opposite -- can urban housing really justify these insane valuations when US cities have next to no appeal to me? I recently m

Interestingly I wonder the exact opposite -- can urban housing really justify these insane valuations when US cities have next to no appeal to me? I recently moved out of a major city to a small, walkable town so I can get away from the crime, traffic, noise, dirtiness, and car-domination of US cities. It's pretty remarkable to see people and children walk around my neighborhood now -- didn't have that in my major US city before! Your list of infrastructure issues with rural areas also applies to many major US cities. Let's see: - no high speed Internet: I have faster internet in a small town than I ever had in any of the major US cities I've lived in. Some cities have fiber in nice neighborhoods, but it's by no means a strong rural/urban divide as you imply here. - no public transport: Public transit is complete crap in most US cities, with many stuck in a post-covid death spiral thanks to fewer commuters, cut service lines, and rising or perceived-rising crime. There were enough clearly mentally ill people on public transit in my last city that I stopped riding public transit entirely. Where I live now, I can get around entirely on foot or by bike, no need for public transit at all. - no necessary infrastructure like doctors/pharmacies/grocery stores: I can now walk to the grocery store. I could not in my last city. - no employment opportunities: Definitely an issue for some fields, but remote work gives more flexibility on this. If anything this is an argument that's weakened over the last 2-3 years. - schools closing down everywhere: You can only make kids ride so far on the bus in rural America. I know consolidations are an issue in many rural areas, but if you live in a small town, you'll likely be near the only school that remains open. If you live way out in the woods of course you won't have a super close-by school. On the other hand, rural areas are the only places where many of my non-tech peers ever have a hope of owning a home these days. I suspect their values will perform better over time than million dollar townhomes in rotting city centers with poor internet quality, no walkability, crappy public transit, and lots of quality-of-life issues.

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thatfrenchguy 4y ago
> next to no appeal to me That’s sort of the point. I’d kill myself before I’d live in a small town again instead of San Francisco. I can walk to 10 grocery stores, 20 restaurants, literally find all the food I want, and the public transit is pretty good. Who wants to raise kids in rural areas where there won’t be any opportunities for them?
- dont__panic 4y ago
  Different people have different preferences, for sure. I used to feel that way when I lived in a small town with no amenities. But now I'd hate to move back to a major US city, for the reasons I list above. I'm not interested in raising kids, but if I was, it wouldn't be in SF, Seattle, Austin, Denver, or NYC. I'd raise kids someplace where I could let them walk around and explore in a safe way -- the situation on the street in many US cities is not that. They'd be accosted by the mentally ill or run down by giant trucks and SUVs in no time.
  - jimmydorry 4y ago
    What job prospects would your kids have, and would it even have been possible for you to start your career if you lived in the area you are planning to move to for the critical years (high school, university, first few years entering your field, etc.)? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then you have your answer to why property prices near the cities aren't ever going to match the level of rural properties.
    - dont__panic 4y ago
      Depends a lot on comfort with remote work, especially when onboarding college grads. I'd say time will tell how society deals with that. I grew up in a crappy rural area with next to no opportunity, and went to college in a crappy rust belt city with very little opportunity. Moved to NYC the day after graduation to start my career. As far as I can tell, if my life was playing out today, I'd probably pick up a remote gig and move someplace cheaper than NYC where I already know some people -- I simply wouldn't bother with the expensive giant cities because they've never been a good fit for my hobbies and interests. A lack of opportunities definitely shaped my high school experience, but where I live now has a lot more going on than where I grew up, even if they're similar densities. Not all small towns are the same! And depending on what your kids are interested in, SF, NYC, etc. might lack opportunities for your kids, too -- it's not like they can explore nature, or mountain biking, or sailing, or a million other things easily in your average US city. I guess I'm just trying to say that there are tradeoffs no matter where you live, and we probably shouldn't generalize about "rural" and "urban". There's crappy unwalkable non-kid-friendly rural towns aplenty in the US. But there's also crappy unwalkable non-kid-friendly cities aplenty. The right corner of SF, or the right lively small town can both be good places to raise kids.

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thatfrenchguy 4y ago

> next to no appeal to me That’s sort of the point. I’d kill myself before I’d live in a small town again instead of San Francisco. I can walk to 10 grocery stores, 20 restaurants, literally find all the food I want, and the public transit is pretty good. Who wants to raise kids in rural areas where there won’t be any opportunities for them?

dont__panic 4y ago
Different people have different preferences, for sure. I used to feel that way when I lived in a small town with no amenities. But now I'd hate to move back to a major US city, for the reasons I list above. I'm not interested in raising kids, but if I was, it wouldn't be in SF, Seattle, Austin, Denver, or NYC. I'd raise kids someplace where I could let them walk around and explore in a safe way -- the situation on the street in many US cities is not that. They'd be accosted by the mentally ill or run down by giant trucks and SUVs in no time.
- jimmydorry 4y ago
  What job prospects would your kids have, and would it even have been possible for you to start your career if you lived in the area you are planning to move to for the critical years (high school, university, first few years entering your field, etc.)? If the answer to any of these questions is no, then you have your answer to why property prices near the cities aren't ever going to match the level of rural properties.
  - dont__panic 4y ago
    Depends a lot on comfort with remote work, especially when onboarding college grads. I'd say time will tell how society deals with that. I grew up in a crappy rural area with next to no opportunity, and went to college in a crappy rust belt city with very little opportunity. Moved to NYC the day after graduation to start my career. As far as I can tell, if my life was playing out today, I'd probably pick up a remote gig and move someplace cheaper than NYC where I already know some people -- I simply wouldn't bother with the expensive giant cities because they've never been a good fit for my hobbies and interests. A lack of opportunities definitely shaped my high school experience, but where I live now has a lot more going on than where I grew up, even if they're similar densities. Not all small towns are the same! And depending on what your kids are interested in, SF, NYC, etc. might lack opportunities for your kids, too -- it's not like they can explore nature, or mountain biking, or sailing, or a million other things easily in your average US city. I guess I'm just trying to say that there are tradeoffs no matter where you live, and we probably shouldn't generalize about "rural" and "urban". There's crappy unwalkable non-kid-friendly rural towns aplenty in the US. But there's also crappy unwalkable non-kid-friendly cities aplenty. The right corner of SF, or the right lively small town can both be good places to raise kids.