6 ms·

Don't be dismissive of script kiddies, they can cause a lot of chaos, and often do it because they feel like no amount of self education or self improvement wil

Don't be dismissive of script kiddies, they can cause a lot of chaos, and often do it because they feel like no amount of self education or self improvement will improve their chances of stable full time employment. (Hence many of them operating out of the former USSR.)

goshx 4y ago
I’ve met tons of script kiddies over the years and none of them were concerned about employment. They do what they do just to show that they can.
- kjeetgill 4y ago
  I was thinking the exact same thing, as former (and reformed) lightweight teen hacker. My motivations? Employment? More like for the sheer joy of discovery and fascination with working through ideas. And maybe the slightly sketchier teen hackers: lulz.
  - iratewizard 4y ago
    It's not enough to notice that something's possible. You have to do it for a good laugh and show your friends. Sorry, Valve.
  - 0des 4y ago
    I just wanted to know what was out there, and most importantly what actual aliens looked like. I cringe now.
    - bornfreddy 4y ago
      That was one thing that became pretty apparent with smartphones - those blurred "photos" of UFOs were scams. If they weren't, there would be tons of high quality alien vehicles footage available by now.
      - MockObject 4y ago
        I'm not sure about that. I have a pretty good phone, but I still can't take a decent picture of the moon, so I'd have no hope with a suspicious airplane-sized light in the night sky. The cameras are optimized for selfies and meals.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
      >I cringe now. Why? They look that scary?
- dontbenebby 4y ago
  >I’ve met tons of script kiddies over the years and none of them were concerned about employment. Your sample is probably biased in some way. I've met many who feel trapped in wage slavery, here in the USA.
  - 867-5309 4y ago
    agree. the freelancer / gig economy is dominate by script kiddie / template churner companies in India for whom $2/hr is a good wage. there's no competing with that
    - cupofpython 4y ago
      this is a feature, not a bug, of globalization. Work that can be done in cheaper countries is allocated there. On a related note (and I get negative feedback whenever i say this, but) this is the future of all software developers as i see it. If you can do your entire job remotely, then "remote" is going to get optimized over time. It does not make sense to spend your time in USA (for example) coding when you can stop at developing the specs and send it overseas to be coded for half the cost or less. Architects dont lay bricks, and brick layers dont need to understand architecture. Accumulating knowledge of many different types of syntax for expressing the same principles is something that is only going to depreciate in value over time.
      - pault 4y ago
        "Just" sending it overseas to be coded is more likely to end in failure than success, unless you have a lot of experience and know what the pitfalls are (which is a very expensive education). I'm not picking on developing countries; the same goes for big enterprise contractor providers in the U.S. They have no incentive to write stable, maintainable code. Their incentive is to make it just stable enough to not get sued and get it out the door as quickly as possible. An employee that will have to live with that code for several years will focus on maintainability purely out of self interest if nothing else. As to whether overseas firms are able to undercut domestic firms, it's a possibility, but anyone that has dealt with time zone issues and cultural barriers most likely knows what they are sacrificing to get that discounted rate.
- Terry_Roll 4y ago
  What do you expect when the world is run by criminals? Seriously!?! Look at the people who make laws, they dont have the intelligence or morality to even teach a TL;DR to everyone at school. Talk about set up to fail! And when they upgrade the laws they dont even inform each and every member of the public, let alone let the public debate whether its a good law or not. Democracy is the ultimate criminal act because people are tricked into having laws forced upon them by a small minority of criminals who decide what is best for you. Democracy is parenting of adults. And yet the stupid keep holding up the law as an example of righteousness without knowing ALL the laws. What is the definition of stupid? A law abiding citizen.
  - tomc1985 4y ago
    So what would you have instead? A fully participatory democracy where every citizen votes on everything? Or authoritarianism?
    - Terry_Roll 4y ago
      > A fully participatory democracy where every citizen votes on everything? What like Switzerland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_democracy#Referendums https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_democracy#Refere...
- fny 4y ago
  This a thousand times. The more nefarious hacks are done by state actors and professional groups. For script kiddies, it's mostly for the lulz.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > I’ve met tons of script kiddies over the years and none of them were concerned about employment. They do what they do just to show that they can. Even worse: when I was a kid trying to hack around everyone had some (probably false or based on rare occurrences) where the hacker/script kiddie would get caught but employed for their skills instead of prosecuted.
  - radlad 4y ago
    This is the story of how Jono met Dug Song and started Duo! https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/19/how-hackers-dug-song-and-jono-oberhide-teamed-up-to-start-duo-security.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/19/how-hackers-dug-song-and-jon...
jeroenhd 4y ago
They certainly can cause a lot of chaos. In fact, I'd say that most malicious chaos normal internet users may be subjected to is done by these scriptkiddies. Theres a difference, though, between an extensive ransomeware attack and an experiment by a bunch of amateurs. The chance of key recovery is much greater if there are dedicated criminals behind the attack, but amateurs also don't get the widespread reach that the media coverage might suggest. I think the characterization of scriptkiddies as hopeless people is a bit romantic. I was something of a skiddie when I was young and I think a lot of their behaviour can be attributed to teenage recklessness. The former USSR certainly has their fair share of scriptkiddies but they're around in every country. When the USSR was still around, the west had its fair share of phreakers that developed into the hacker subculture and established the code of honour that evolved into the cybersecurity communities of today.
- zitterbewegung 4y ago
  What if this ransomware infects a hospital ? Then it can kill people.
  - SQueeeeeL 4y ago
    What if a group of serious hackers infects a hospital... that place should probably be pen tested substantially
    - throwaway1777 4y ago
      They are pen tested. Now same question, what happens when the ransomware infects a hospital?
      - eitland 4y ago
        Has happened before. Responsibility always lies on those who created the malware. But also on hospital IT if they didn't take precautions.
        4y ago
BurningFrog 4y ago
I suspect that much of these "former USSR script kiddies" are actually the kleptocratic Russian regime.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaway576 4y ago
- kodah 4y ago
  There's a line in the guidelines that touches on the nature of this comment. Since you have 1 karma: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - throwaway576 4y ago
    Appreciate your concern and goodwill. When I see sweeping, often incorrect generalizations, I will respond. His statement in the parenthesis seemed unnecessary. I wanted to point out that his premise could also be applicable to the gunslingers. Now, watch my karma go negative ;)
    - kodah 4y ago
      I mean, you're trying to create an off-topic thread on a topic you know will be divisive. No need to sugar coat that you're going out of your way to harm the community.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - throwaway576 4y ago
        I'm holding up a mirror to the community. No intention to harm. Some won't like what they see. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
        kodah 4y ago
        That may be what you're telling yourself, but that's not reality.
jrm4 4y ago
I don't dismiss. And while I don't specifically encourage anyone to do anything illegal, script kiddies are probably on balance a good thing. That's just free pentesting. (This is part of my broader idea that "cybersecurity" will remain nearly entirely impotent until we figure out a way to inject real liability. When something breaks, someone needs to pay or be punished. It's that simple. Perhaps start with Microsoft.)

goshx 4y ago

I’ve met tons of script kiddies over the years and none of them were concerned about employment. They do what they do just to show that they can.

kjeetgill 4y ago
I was thinking the exact same thing, as former (and reformed) lightweight teen hacker. My motivations? Employment? More like for the sheer joy of discovery and fascination with working through ideas. And maybe the slightly sketchier teen hackers: lulz.
- iratewizard 4y ago
  It's not enough to notice that something's possible. You have to do it for a good laugh and show your friends. Sorry, Valve.
- 0des 4y ago
  I just wanted to know what was out there, and most importantly what actual aliens looked like. I cringe now.
  - bornfreddy 4y ago
    That was one thing that became pretty apparent with smartphones - those blurred "photos" of UFOs were scams. If they weren't, there would be tons of high quality alien vehicles footage available by now.
    - MockObject 4y ago
      I'm not sure about that. I have a pretty good phone, but I still can't take a decent picture of the moon, so I'd have no hope with a suspicious airplane-sized light in the night sky. The cameras are optimized for selfies and meals.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - aaaaaaaaaaab 4y ago
    >I cringe now. Why? They look that scary?
dontbenebby 4y ago
>I’ve met tons of script kiddies over the years and none of them were concerned about employment. Your sample is probably biased in some way. I've met many who feel trapped in wage slavery, here in the USA.
- 867-5309 4y ago
  agree. the freelancer / gig economy is dominate by script kiddie / template churner companies in India for whom $2/hr is a good wage. there's no competing with that
  - cupofpython 4y ago
    this is a feature, not a bug, of globalization. Work that can be done in cheaper countries is allocated there. On a related note (and I get negative feedback whenever i say this, but) this is the future of all software developers as i see it. If you can do your entire job remotely, then "remote" is going to get optimized over time. It does not make sense to spend your time in USA (for example) coding when you can stop at developing the specs and send it overseas to be coded for half the cost or less. Architects dont lay bricks, and brick layers dont need to understand architecture. Accumulating knowledge of many different types of syntax for expressing the same principles is something that is only going to depreciate in value over time.
    - pault 4y ago
      "Just" sending it overseas to be coded is more likely to end in failure than success, unless you have a lot of experience and know what the pitfalls are (which is a very expensive education). I'm not picking on developing countries; the same goes for big enterprise contractor providers in the U.S. They have no incentive to write stable, maintainable code. Their incentive is to make it just stable enough to not get sued and get it out the door as quickly as possible. An employee that will have to live with that code for several years will focus on maintainability purely out of self interest if nothing else. As to whether overseas firms are able to undercut domestic firms, it's a possibility, but anyone that has dealt with time zone issues and cultural barriers most likely knows what they are sacrificing to get that discounted rate.
Terry_Roll 4y ago
What do you expect when the world is run by criminals? Seriously!?! Look at the people who make laws, they dont have the intelligence or morality to even teach a TL;DR to everyone at school. Talk about set up to fail! And when they upgrade the laws they dont even inform each and every member of the public, let alone let the public debate whether its a good law or not. Democracy is the ultimate criminal act because people are tricked into having laws forced upon them by a small minority of criminals who decide what is best for you. Democracy is parenting of adults. And yet the stupid keep holding up the law as an example of righteousness without knowing ALL the laws. What is the definition of stupid? A law abiding citizen.
- tomc1985 4y ago
  So what would you have instead? A fully participatory democracy where every citizen votes on everything? Or authoritarianism?
  - Terry_Roll 4y ago
    > A fully participatory democracy where every citizen votes on everything? What like Switzerland? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_democracy#Referendums https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_democracy#Refere...
fny 4y ago
This a thousand times. The more nefarious hacks are done by state actors and professional groups. For script kiddies, it's mostly for the lulz.
the_only_law 4y ago
> I’ve met tons of script kiddies over the years and none of them were concerned about employment. They do what they do just to show that they can. Even worse: when I was a kid trying to hack around everyone had some (probably false or based on rare occurrences) where the hacker/script kiddie would get caught but employed for their skills instead of prosecuted.
- radlad 4y ago
  This is the story of how Jono met Dug Song and started Duo! https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/19/how-hackers-dug-song-and-jono-oberhide-teamed-up-to-start-duo-security.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/04/19/how-hackers-dug-song-and-jon...

jeroenhd 4y ago

They certainly can cause a lot of chaos. In fact, I'd say that most malicious chaos normal internet users may be subjected to is done by these scriptkiddies. Theres a difference, though, between an extensive ransomeware attack and an experiment by a bunch of amateurs. The chance of key recovery is much greater if there are dedicated criminals behind the attack, but amateurs also don't get the widespread reach that the media coverage might suggest. I think the characterization of scriptkiddies as hopeless people is a bit romantic. I was something of a skiddie when I was young and I think a lot of their behaviour can be attributed to teenage recklessness. The former USSR certainly has their fair share of scriptkiddies but they're around in every country. When the USSR was still around, the west had its fair share of phreakers that developed into the hacker subculture and established the code of honour that evolved into the cybersecurity communities of today.

zitterbewegung 4y ago
What if this ransomware infects a hospital ? Then it can kill people.
- SQueeeeeL 4y ago
  What if a group of serious hackers infects a hospital... that place should probably be pen tested substantially
  - throwaway1777 4y ago
    They are pen tested. Now same question, what happens when the ransomware infects a hospital?
    - eitland 4y ago
      Has happened before. Responsibility always lies on those who created the malware. But also on hospital IT if they didn't take precautions.
      - 4y ago

BurningFrog 4y ago

I suspect that much of these "former USSR script kiddies" are actually the kleptocratic Russian regime.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwaway576 4y ago

kodah 4y ago
There's a line in the guidelines that touches on the nature of this comment. Since you have 1 karma: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- throwaway576 4y ago
  Appreciate your concern and goodwill. When I see sweeping, often incorrect generalizations, I will respond. His statement in the parenthesis seemed unnecessary. I wanted to point out that his premise could also be applicable to the gunslingers. Now, watch my karma go negative ;)
  - kodah 4y ago
    I mean, you're trying to create an off-topic thread on a topic you know will be divisive. No need to sugar coat that you're going out of your way to harm the community.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - throwaway576 4y ago
      I'm holding up a mirror to the community. No intention to harm. Some won't like what they see. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
      - kodah 4y ago
        That may be what you're telling yourself, but that's not reality.

jrm4 4y ago

I don't dismiss. And while I don't specifically encourage anyone to do anything illegal, script kiddies are probably on balance a good thing. That's just free pentesting. (This is part of my broader idea that "cybersecurity" will remain nearly entirely impotent until we figure out a way to inject real liability. When something breaks, someone needs to pay or be punished. It's that simple. Perhaps start with Microsoft.)