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Is node.js giving the author bullshit or did they knowingly step into a field they are unfamiliar with, getting themselves involved with a package manager, a ja

by korijn 4y ago

Is node.js giving the author bullshit or did they knowingly step into a field they are unfamiliar with, getting themselves involved with a package manager, a javascript runtime, a browser, and a local fileserver? As if you were able to instantly run whatever code you found on the internet back in the C++ days. It's bizarre. Not everything needs to have such a low barrier to entry that anyone can work with it. Who said _that_ is where we collectively set the bar? It's a false premise, and frankly it feels like toxic false entitlement open source maintainers are typically showered with.

krapp 4y ago
>Is node.js giving the author bullshit or did they knowingly step into a field they are unfamiliar with, getting themselves involved with a package manager, a javascript runtime, a browser, and a local fileserver? Node.js is giving the author bullshit. They were not unfamiliar with the field. They knew what a package manager was, they already had NPM installed. They were familiar with the architecture of the web and one of them had a CS degree. >Not everything needs to have such a low barrier to entry that anyone can work with it. Who said _that_ is where we collectively set the bar? It's a false premise, and frankly it feels like more of the toxic false entitlement open source maintainers are typically showered with. I find the premise that the bar should be set artificially high just to keep people out to be toxic, especially with a language like javascript that's intended to be accessible to everyone. Generations of people learned how to code by studying (and ripping off) source code on the web, but now those people have grown up and surrounded themselves with shibboleths and want to pretend they're in a rarified air where high spec engineering expertise should be required just to get past the gate. And that's all most of the JS ecosystem is - gatekeeping. We're not talking about linking some arcane C program here, we're talking about a scripting language so simple it doesn't even know what integers are - no not even modern JS does - designed to be written in Notepad and run in a browser. Yes, this should have been simple, or at the very least much simpler than it was. Yes, it should be possible for someone who isn't a full stack developer to be able to run javascript code, even with a package manager, even random code they find on the internet, with minimum effort. Yes, it's actually easier to link and run random C++ code than it is javascript at the moment. Yes, that is a bad thing.
- korijn 4y ago
  Well, I disagree with everything you say (especially calling this gatekeeping). You simply are unwilling to learn about the tools you're working with. I'm sorry we couldn't work it out. Best of luck!
  - krapp 4y ago
    It isn't ignorance - the people who complain the loudest about the JS ecosystem are the people who use it the most.
    - korijn 4y ago
      I can see what you're saying. I agree and don't think it's ignorance, which is why I'm calling it false entitlement. It's all open source software, maintained by humans just like the rest of us. I'd say, go do something about it if you care so much, instead of complaining.

by korijn 4y ago

krapp 4y ago

>Is node.js giving the author bullshit or did they knowingly step into a field they are unfamiliar with, getting themselves involved with a package manager, a javascript runtime, a browser, and a local fileserver? Node.js is giving the author bullshit. They were not unfamiliar with the field. They knew what a package manager was, they already had NPM installed. They were familiar with the architecture of the web and one of them had a CS degree. >Not everything needs to have such a low barrier to entry that anyone can work with it. Who said _that_ is where we collectively set the bar? It's a false premise, and frankly it feels like more of the toxic false entitlement open source maintainers are typically showered with. I find the premise that the bar should be set artificially high just to keep people out to be toxic, especially with a language like javascript that's intended to be accessible to everyone. Generations of people learned how to code by studying (and ripping off) source code on the web, but now those people have grown up and surrounded themselves with shibboleths and want to pretend they're in a rarified air where high spec engineering expertise should be required just to get past the gate. And that's all most of the JS ecosystem is - gatekeeping. We're not talking about linking some arcane C program here, we're talking about a scripting language so simple it doesn't even know what integers are - no not even modern JS does - designed to be written in Notepad and run in a browser. Yes, this should have been simple, or at the very least much simpler than it was. Yes, it should be possible for someone who isn't a full stack developer to be able to run javascript code, even with a package manager, even random code they find on the internet, with minimum effort. Yes, it's actually easier to link and run random C++ code than it is javascript at the moment. Yes, that is a bad thing.

korijn 4y ago
Well, I disagree with everything you say (especially calling this gatekeeping). You simply are unwilling to learn about the tools you're working with. I'm sorry we couldn't work it out. Best of luck!
- krapp 4y ago
  It isn't ignorance - the people who complain the loudest about the JS ecosystem are the people who use it the most.
  - korijn 4y ago
    I can see what you're saying. I agree and don't think it's ignorance, which is why I'm calling it false entitlement. It's all open source software, maintained by humans just like the rest of us. I'd say, go do something about it if you care so much, instead of complaining.