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Indigenous People Have Been Here Forever. Why Won’t Archeologists Believe It?

9 points by 8bitsrule 4y ago

cato_the_elder 4y ago
Forever? So they didn't originate in Africa like the rest of us? Is monogenism [1] falling out of favor? [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenism
- moistly 4y ago
  In the article it’s “forever” in quotes. They’ve been here in Canada easily 30000+ years, and apparently there’s evidence of up to 300000 years existence further south, which is indeed as good as “forever.”
  - gus_massa 4y ago
    Firs or second result in Google: https://images.theconversation.com/files/107932/original/image-20160112-6977-19qvr80.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=280&fit=crop&dpr=1 https://images.theconversation.com/files/107932/original/ima... The map shows 50,000ya arriving to Australia and 15,000ya arriving to America. The numbers are never settled and always approximations and fuzzy, so I'd not be surprised that later it's modified to 20,000ya arriving to America. Perhaps 30,000ya is possible. But arriving to America 300,000ya is just too much. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#Encephalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#Encephalizatio... that's the date of the first H. Sapiens in Africa and the previous species didn't extend past Korea and never reached America. From the article: > Then, in five centuries, they burned through the resources that had sustained Indigenous peoples for 25,000 (or 250,000) years. In the article it looks like before the arrival of Colon (or Erikson), America was an ideal place, but 10,000 years ago there was a huge extinction of the Megafauna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna#North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna#North_Am... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna#South_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna#South_Am... . It's not very clear what happened, but we probably just got technology good enough to kill and eat them.
WaxedChewbacca 4y ago
subjectsigma 4y ago
I don't understand why it is wrong for people to use terms like "the Americas" or "indigenous cultures". It seems not unreasonable for Western people to use Western terms first coined in Western languages. Does the author walk around referring to Japan as Nihon? Any denial of evidence or lack of respect for indigenous cultures is a separate issue, of course. But I don't think that services necessarily derives from the language. It feels like the author is refusing to choose their battles. Ninja EDIT: the YouTube channel CPG Grey has a video about the term "Indian" vs "Native American" and the conclusion seems to be that Indian is preferred by most people on modern day reservations, despite the dubious origins of the term: https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ

9 points by 8bitsrule 4y ago

Forever? So they didn't originate in Africa like the rest of us? Is monogenism [1] falling out of favor? [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenism

moistly 4y ago
In the article it’s “forever” in quotes. They’ve been here in Canada easily 30000+ years, and apparently there’s evidence of up to 300000 years existence further south, which is indeed as good as “forever.”
- gus_massa 4y ago
  Firs or second result in Google: https://images.theconversation.com/files/107932/original/image-20160112-6977-19qvr80.png?ixlib=rb-1.1.0&q=45&auto=format&w=600&h=280&fit=crop&dpr=1 https://images.theconversation.com/files/107932/original/ima... The map shows 50,000ya arriving to Australia and 15,000ya arriving to America. The numbers are never settled and always approximations and fuzzy, so I'd not be surprised that later it's modified to 20,000ya arriving to America. Perhaps 30,000ya is possible. But arriving to America 300,000ya is just too much. From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#Encephalization https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution#Encephalizatio... that's the date of the first H. Sapiens in Africa and the previous species didn't extend past Korea and never reached America. From the article: > Then, in five centuries, they burned through the resources that had sustained Indigenous peoples for 25,000 (or 250,000) years. In the article it looks like before the arrival of Colon (or Erikson), America was an ideal place, but 10,000 years ago there was a huge extinction of the Megafauna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna#North_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna#North_Am... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna#South_America https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleistocene_megafauna#South_Am... . It's not very clear what happened, but we probably just got technology good enough to kill and eat them.

WaxedChewbacca 4y ago

subjectsigma 4y ago

I don't understand why it is wrong for people to use terms like "the Americas" or "indigenous cultures". It seems not unreasonable for Western people to use Western terms first coined in Western languages. Does the author walk around referring to Japan as Nihon? Any denial of evidence or lack of respect for indigenous cultures is a separate issue, of course. But I don't think that services necessarily derives from the language. It feels like the author is refusing to choose their battles. Ninja EDIT: the YouTube channel CPG Grey has a video about the term "Indian" vs "Native American" and the conclusion seems to be that Indian is preferred by most people on modern day reservations, despite the dubious origins of the term: https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ https://youtu.be/kh88fVP2FWQ