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Rash of parts thefts is leaving Freightliner trucks inoperable
- NegativeLatency 4y ago> Harvesting and reprogramming the modules allow them to work in other trucks, Daimler said.
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- usrn 4y agoFirefighting is one of those absolutely basic parts of civilization who's importance is obvious to everyone. If people are robbing firefighters then social cohesion is completely dead.
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- jetbalsa 4y agoYou misread! its "Freightliner" not firefighting.
- rad_gruchalski 4y agoThe article talks about Freightliner trucks, not firefighters.
- EntropicBrew 4y agoI think the article is on Frieghtliners not firefighting trucks. But robbery is still absolutely an issue.
- KennyBlanken 4y agoBest I can think of is that parent commenter was referring to the fact that many fire and EMS vehicles use a Freightliner chassis/engine? Our fire department needs a new ambulance. There is a two year waiting list for one. The ineptitude of the automotive industry in dragging its heels relying on outdated semiconductor manufacturing is just mind-boggling, but so is the lack of action by the administration to order prioritizing parts and vehicles for public safety, followed by cargo and mass passenger transportation.
- willcipriano 4y agoCan they do that? I mean they could buy things on the open market sure, but force sellers to sell (at presumably a lower price since if ambulance manufacturers aren't winning bids now they probably aren't paying the most) to particular consumers and not others. People might start asking who John Galt is.
- b112 4y agoThe ineptitude of the automotive industry in dragging its heels relying on outdated semiconductor manufacturing is just mind-boggling, This never happened, because outdated makes no sense. You want a part? People make a part. Older is easier to make too, has more test cycles, failure points mapped, etc. Automakers are doing things right, by using tested parts. Production methods. We absolutely don't need new as the primary priority, or iterative, we need stable first.
- armchairhacker 4y agoAlways a few bad apples. Probably the same people stealing catalytic converters
- skyyler 4y agoPlease rethink using "bad apples" in this context in the future. The saying about bad apples is a warning about the corrupting influence of a single corrupt person on a group. It's always confused me, too. You don't leave rotten apples in your fruit bowl.
- UncleEntity 4y agoI’ve given this quite a bit of thought recently because, well… The common usage of “a few bad apples” has changed to mean the group isn’t responsible, as a whole, for the actions of a few instead of the old warning about removing the bad ones before they corrupt the bunch. Like during the “peaceful” protests a couple years ago. It was the “bad apples” who were burning police cars and looting stores, the group has no responsibility for their actions. Not so for the Capital Insurrection though. They don’t get to claim “a few bad apples” and the people who were there to peacefully protest and merely held up a sign on the lawn were equally as guilty as the ones who entered the capital to forcefully stop the election results. Double standard really.
- swearwolf 4y agoI hated the rioting of 2020 as much as the next guy, but it’s worth remembering that the bad apples doing the rioting because another group of bad apples kept killing black people and getting away with it. You do have a point about the flattening of everyone who came to Washington on January 6th down into a caricature of the worst of them. That happens a lot in the media these days. See also, protestors, Antifa, Black Lives Matter, etc. One side highlights the worst of each group, and the other selectively highlights the best. Sucks, but apparently everyone decided we have to pick sides about everything, and stick to them at all costs.
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- themitigating 4y agoMany of these thefts are related to economic issues but they come and go. Here's the NY Times in 2008 talking about an epidemic of catalytic coverter thefts https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/us/29converters.html https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/29/us/29converters.html
- ddingus 4y agoThat appears to be ramping up again. One of the people on a project I'm working with them on just had theirs stolen. And it could total their car! People driving used Hondas may find out insurance won't cover, or will want to just total used cars due to the converter being worth more than the paper value of the car, despite a used market valuing the car much higher! Cost $1,200 to $2,400 to replace and due to the last round of this theft happening, the legal requirements are now stiff. One can't just go get one of these and install anymore. Has to be done in a shop, and there is traceability on everything. Expensive. Yet the thieves can still somehow trade the metals.
- hotpotamus 4y agoI don't understand the legal requirement thing. In my state, I'm pretty sure I could put a straight pipe down there and I'd never have an issue. In fact, I'd probably look into it if it happened to me. That said, I know my state is pretty lax about that sort of thing. Curious how it's actually enforced in others.
- sokoloff 4y agoYou might need to install a downstream O2 sensor simulator to prevent an OBD2 failure to verify function of the (now missing) converter, but those are readily available for off-road use as I’m sure would be your application. ;)
- hotpotamus 4y agoYeah, the cheater plugs are part of the deal. I'm pretty sure they're just fixed resistors so it's not complicated.
- Jeff_Brown 4y agoThe theft of manhole covers always makes me think what has civilization come to.
- t-3 4y agoHah, I misread it too the first time.
- tyingq 4y agoI have to wonder if this is one of those somewhat "implanted" stories to get support for moving towards John Deere style DRM on some of their parts. That is, not that it's made up, but that perhaps the scale is being exaggerated a bit. Edit: Yes, I'm aware there's some DRM. So far, though, not as locked down as the example of John Deere, cryptographic control that requires phone-home, etc.
- donw 4y agoDidn't think of that angle, but perhaps! Pretty much everything in transportation is being pushed in the direction of centralized control; hence, the focus on EVs and the push against biofuels. The marketing is all "climate change", but the reality is that biofuel-based vehicles can, in theory, be manufactured locally with machine tools, and the fuel can be grown locally as well. I'd bet money that they're better for the environment, too. And no, not interested in some "study" from Harvard funded by people that have a deeply-vested interest in EVs. Modern battery tech is complicated. Manufacturing has to be much more centralized. And has plenty of places to insert remotely-operated control mechanisms linking to cellular networks.
- DennisP 4y agoOn the other hand, any electric car can be charged from solar panels on your roof. Then there's Aptera, which can charge itself from the sun if you're in a reasonably sunny area, and which has a strong commitment to right-to-repair: https://aptera.us/right-to-repair-commitment-feat-rich-rebuilds/ https://aptera.us/right-to-repair-commitment-feat-rich-rebui... They also make their own battery packs, despite not exactly being a large operation. https://aptera.us/battery-update/ https://aptera.us/battery-update/
- telchar 4y agoColor me surprised to see that name again! I thought Aptera was dead and gone. I hope they fare better this time. The solar car route could be an interesting niche.
- zardo 4y agoAlso, a rash of power train control module failures leaves Freightliner trucks inoperable, and a shortage of spare parts sees commercial trucking companies turning to the black market for stolen parts.
- donw 4y agoPerhaps they could rebrand as Waitliner? A nice place for your goods to take a rest.
- nathanaldensr 4y agoI was thinking that, too. The thieves just steal the same modules over and over as each trucking line buys them from the black market. Nice business if you can get it.
- daniel-cussen 4y agoThat's one business opportunity. The other business opportunity, complementary, is security devices to protect your parts, extra tricky huge locks and their lock-picking sets, secure parking lots along routes at premium fees and then of course a special platinum lounge thing with concessions. And marking parts with license plate numbers.[1] Great alignment of incentives among the two excellent business opportunities. [1] That last one I saw in Chile in fact like in 2001, stamping license plates on mirrors. Worse mirror of course. They also did windows, you wonder why, guess they had a glass stamping machine and not enough customers, wanted to get more money from the same customers. The dentist thing basically.
- bluGill 4y agoThis is why modern cars and tractors encode the VIN in computers and don't let you replace parts without dealer tools. You buy a black market part, even though it is perfectly good it can't be used without the dealer getting involved and the dealer tool can automatically check against a list of stolen parts. Right to repair has the downside of not checking for stolen parts like that. Which is why it isn't the black and white issue most people think it is.
- nr2x 4y agoSo we’ve gotten to the Gibson “high tech low life” stage officially. “Case picked up the powertrain control module from the table and nodded at the fence across the table…”
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- speed_spread 4y agoI'm currently reading "Idoru" for the first time and it feels contemporary. Much of Gibson's work is no longer science-fiction.
- astrange 4y agoToo bad the name of the book is spelled wrong. Maybe he didn’t have any fact checkers.
- riffraff 4y agoIsn't it a common transliteration of japanese to use R for L and show the devoiced U for voiceless consonant? I'm pretty sure I've seen it used often when the intent is to show "japeneseness".
- UncleEntity 4y ago> The company will consider civil actions for software infringement against those involved in CPC theft and mismanagement. Or they could try to fix their firmware so this stupid truck didn’t actively try to kill me on a regular basis. Just sayin, freightliner.
- olyjohn 4y agoYou can't say something like that and then omit the details! Are you referring to the overactive automatic braking?
- UncleEntity 4y agoCollision avoidance that likes to have false alarms going around curves on wet, sub-freezing roads. Auto transmission that wants to downshift into redline going down hills. General unpredictable behavior on slick roads where it is pretty important to be able to pick your gear. Partially this is the company’s fault because they turn off a bunch of stuff for “fuel economy”.
- bob1029 4y agoWhy does something with as much mass as a semi truck have the ability to wrest control away from the operator in the first place? Collision avoidance nannies seem substantially more tolerable when the physics equation has 2 zeroes removed from the mass figure. It's not like arbitrary jackasses can get behind the wheel of these vehicles anyways... there is a reason a commercial licensing program exists.
- mschuster91 4y ago> It's not like arbitrary jackasses can get behind the wheel of these vehicles anyways... there is a reason a commercial licensing program exists. The problem isn't "arbitrary jackasses", the problem is the relentless pace modern truckers are put through. Utterly insane demands for just-in-time delivery that have absolutely no margin left for inevitable delays or completely unrealistic schedules that many drivers compensate for by driving longer than allowed. Add on that drivers who self-medicate the loneliness on the road with alcohol, dope or other stuff and that explains a majority of the accidents that could be (or are) prevented with collision avoidance systems. The remainder are irresponsible other motorists who think it's a great idea to merge 2m in front of a truck after overtaking it - yeah of course, the truck driver will be widely awake now, thank you very much...
- r00fus 4y ago"The rip-offs of common powertrain control module 4 units relate to the ongoing shortage of microchips" So how long does the microchip shortage continue?
- Syonyk 4y ago> So how long does the microchip shortage continue? Warning: Paid Pessimist point of view (I've done computer security for far, far too long). Indefinitely. It doesn't recover. Because (modern, leading process) microchips are the sort of globe spanning supply chain problem that works great, right up until it doesn't. Coolant for some laser is made in this country that's at war. Some critical surface processing chemical is made by that company that had a major power outage and their facility caked up with goo that has to be scraped out. Some semiconductor fab has a worker shortage. Or a water shortage. Or got blown to pieces when some other country tried to invade (TSMC would be nuts if they weren't wired with demolition charges and quietly sure China knew it). There will always be "something" that interferes with the smooth generation of chips. And there will be some supply, but not as much as people hope for, and they'll be rough around the edges, and, besides, you can't get those surface mount resistors in any quantity right now for your design. And eventually, this starts impacting the funding of the companies working on the newest, latest and greatest process tech, and they don't have the money to continue pushing forward. We're long past the point when anyone but the most well funded multinationals can even consider a leading process tech foundry - and there are only a few companies on the planet who can make the hardware for it. The supply chain for foundries is just as bad as anything else, if you have a couple billion to drop on one. And at some point, enough people will find workarounds that don't involve modern silicon that (at least in my arc of the future) demand will drop, so you won't be able to justify the investment in a leading edge fab much beyond the current stuff. Throw a solid recession/depression in, and consumer electronics spending is likely to drop substantially - so there goes a lot of the leading edge demand for some while. The question, "How much damage can an efficient, just in time optimized global economy take before it fails?" has been discussed for many, many years, and the pessimistic point of view as of now would be, "Less than it's taken and is going to take in the next few years." And at some point, things like "food" and "basic energy" are more important to keep working than the latest consumer toys. I'm entirely aware this doesn't paint a pretty picture of the future, and it certainly doesn't involve us going to the stars in any quantities, outside perhaps some token boots on Mars. But it's the sort of ragged decline we've seen throughout history, and, I'd argue, that we're firmly in the middle of right now. "Rattling down the backside of the arc of empire, undergoing catabolic collapse" seems to better predict things than a lot of other mental models lately.
- notorandit 4y agoI suspect it is not the module itself. There need to be some specific components in those modules that have a high demand. On a very specific application. Like ... Tanks?
- londons_explore 4y agoIt's the whole module. It will be sold to another trucker whose module has failed and who is out of business till he can get a replacement. The total number of operable trucks will stay the same - thieves or no thieves.
- Thorrez 4y ago>The company will consider civil actions for software infringement against those involved in CPC theft and mismanagement. What is software infringement? Does it mean copyright infringement? Stealing a piece of hardware isn't copyright infringment, although maybe some types of reprogramming it would be. Kind of funny. I've heard people call copyright infringement theft before, but I've never heard anyone call theft copyright infringement until now.
- mminer237 4y agoI would guess that they're arguing that the first-sale doctrine of 17 U.S.C. § 109 does not apply since it was stolen, i.e., since they didn't legally acquire the hardware, they have no right to use any software thereon.
- teddyh 4y agoWhat is a “right to use” of software?
- gjvc 4y agorelevant: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.en.html
- pc86 4y agoIf software is licensed, and you don't comply with the license, you don't have a right to use it. Seems pretty straightforward. In this example, if you steal a piece of hardware with embedded software on it, it seems unlikely that you're licensed to use that piece of software.
- teddyh 4y ago> If software is licensed, and you don't comply with the license, you don't have a right to use it. What law is this based on? If you say copyright law, then how can I be in violation if I have not made a copy? If you say contract law, arguing that the license is a form of contract, then how can I be bound by it if I have not signed it, agreed to it, or even read it?
- vfclists 4y agoThere is a reason why truck operators in Africa prefer the older trucks which don't have these fancy electronics. Servicing and parts are not a problem. This whole business about semiconductors shortages affecting vehicle manufacturing is just ridiculous. Humanity has survived without these advanced electronics for ages. What difference doesn't make if you don't have electronic geegaws in your vehicle?
- maxerickson 4y agoElectronic powertrain controllers make vehicles more efficient and more reliable, it isn't just the power mirrors that need chips.
- VLM 4y agoNot anymore. That's the point. Times have changed and they make trucks less efficient and less reliable.
- windowsrookie 4y agoThat may have been true in the mid 2000's but not today. There was a lot of newer emission equipment back then and the truck manufacturers still hadn't figured it out. But todays trucks are absolutely more fuel efficient and more reliable. The problem is if they do break, you need a mechanic with a higher level of education to fix them.
- m3047 4y agoMight not be as efficient, but it probably isn't going to stop on the highway with a load of chickens in the beating sun because the diesel was contaminated (at least not right away). You might not be able to brick your combine if someone steals it, but nobody can brick it while you're trying to get the harvest in either. Bureacratic enforcement suffers, but who cares as long as the bureacrats get paid, right?
- dontbenebby 4y agoMakes sense. Manufacturing is difficult. Read up on Cuban car culture.