6 ms·

Children, paying the mortgage, and taking care of elderly family are among the number one things.

lapcat 4y ago
> Children Some people have no children. People who do have children have them at various ages, sometimes very young. Some people ignore their children. Children tend to leave home within 20 years or so, leaving an "empty nest". > paying the mortgage How is that different from paying rent? And how exactly does it "distract" you? My mortgage payment was automatically deducted from my bank account, I didn't even have to think about it. Not to mention, eventually you pay off your mortgage and don't have to pay anymore. > taking care of elderly family This can also happen at almost any age. Or never. What about the distraction of raging young hormones. The distraction of personal uncertainty about life and the future. The distraction of financial insecurity.
- bumby 4y ago
  >paying the mortgage I think a more apt description is "owning a home". Owning a home brings all kinds of complications beyond just paying a single bill. One of the major benefits of renting is that you effectively outsource all the maintenance headaches, for example.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > One of the major benefits of renting is that you effectively outsource all the maintenance headaches, for example. One of the downsides of renting, very often, is that you actually don't outsource headaches, you just add an extra layer of complication on top of them.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    "You need a ton of focus to succeed overall, not just math. I think people tend to get distracted by things as they get older." So, what is the argument supposed to be here, that only renters can focus and succeed? This feels like it's getting totally ridiculous.
    - bumby 4y ago
      You quoted someone else so I can’t speak to their claim. But mine is that it’s easier to succeed if you’re focused and it’s easier to focus when you have a simpler life. I was just clarifying an important part of the context of the mortgage argument because you seemed to strawman it to be only about the monetary transaction. For some, renting helps simplify their life. It’s not a difficult through line to follow and I don’t think it’s extraordinarily controversial, despite your consistent mischaracterization. (I never said, for example, that “only” renters can succeed). Do you think it’s easier to succeed running one business or a dozen? Why?
      - lapcat 4y ago
        > I don’t think it’s extraordinarily controversial Do you have any evidence that people generally believe that renting is more conducive to success than homeowning? Should we take it as advice? "If you want to maximize your chances of success, don't buy a house!" Strangely though, most successful people do own a home. Sometimes more than one! When exactly is it ok to buy a home, and why do successful people do it, if it makes them less focused? > Do you think it’s easier to succeed running one business or a dozen? Why? A dozen, of course. Because if you're running a dozen businesses, you likely have a lot of financial resources. And since many businesses fail, you have a greater chance of at least one of them succeeding. (Do I even need to mention that the richest person in the world has multiple businesses and is trying to buy yet another?)
        bumby 4y ago
        How do you define success? That definition seems pretty central to each of your questions.
Qem 4y ago
I'd add disease to that list. Once I got past 30 and put in some weight, just sitting to study became harder, as back pain/discomfort comes real quickly. Around my 20s I just sat hours straight and read entire books on a computer screen, or spent a entire afternoon doing math exercises. Now with a single hour sitting my back already starts hurting, and my focus is broken.
- lapcat 4y ago
  > Once I got past 30 and put in some weight, just sitting to study became harder, as back pain/discomfort comes real quickly. Sorry to hear that. Have you seen a doctor? This is not something that typically happens to 30somethings.
  - Qem 4y ago
    > Sorry to hear that. Have you seen a doctor? This is not something that typically happens to 30somethings. Yeah. Got pretty standard advice from him. Exercise more, lose weight, book some pilates sessions, pause more often, stretch more often... The point is, your self-maintenance burden only grows as you age, and it starts chewing away time you could spend otherwise. When you're younger, given you have the basics of life taken care by your family, it's easier to give a ton of attention to a few things (say, videogames or even the next big scientific breakthrough) at expense of everything else.
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > your self-maintenance burden only grows as you age People of all ages ought to exercise. Young people often play sports, no? > given you have the basics of life taken care by your family, it's easier to give a ton of attention to a few things (say, videogames or even the next big scientific breakthrough) I'm not aware of any big scientific breakthroughs achieved by teenagers living at home with their parents.
      - JadeNB 4y ago
        > > given you have the basics of life taken care by your family, it's easier to give a ton of attention to a few things (say, videogames or even the next big scientific breakthrough) > I'm not aware of any big scientific breakthroughs achieved by teenagers living at home with their parents. As a 41-year-old, I'm incentivized not to believe that math is a young person's game, and so agree with you; but one could try to disagree with you by suggesting that it's a sweet spot: the years, say, mid-20s to late-30s are the time when the accumulating benefit of knowledge and experience has not yet been outweighed by the accumulating burden of age and responsibility. (And one could, of course, argue against this argument; I think that there is no valid conclusion but "it depends.") I would also suggest that there probably are breakthroughs achieved by teenagers living at home with their parents! I think, for a recent example, of https://www.wuft.org/news/2022/02/18/buchholz-high-school-student-discovers-and-publishes-new-calculus-technique https://www.wuft.org/news/2022/02/18/buchholz-high-school-st... .

> Children Some people have no children. People who do have children have them at various ages, sometimes very young. Some people ignore their children. Children tend to leave home within 20 years or so, leaving an "empty nest". > paying the mortgage How is that different from paying rent? And how exactly does it "distract" you? My mortgage payment was automatically deducted from my bank account, I didn't even have to think about it. Not to mention, eventually you pay off your mortgage and don't have to pay anymore. > taking care of elderly family This can also happen at almost any age. Or never. What about the distraction of raging young hormones. The distraction of personal uncertainty about life and the future. The distraction of financial insecurity.

bumby 4y ago
>paying the mortgage I think a more apt description is "owning a home". Owning a home brings all kinds of complications beyond just paying a single bill. One of the major benefits of renting is that you effectively outsource all the maintenance headaches, for example.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > One of the major benefits of renting is that you effectively outsource all the maintenance headaches, for example. One of the downsides of renting, very often, is that you actually don't outsource headaches, you just add an extra layer of complication on top of them.
- lapcat 4y ago
  "You need a ton of focus to succeed overall, not just math. I think people tend to get distracted by things as they get older." So, what is the argument supposed to be here, that only renters can focus and succeed? This feels like it's getting totally ridiculous.
  - bumby 4y ago
    You quoted someone else so I can’t speak to their claim. But mine is that it’s easier to succeed if you’re focused and it’s easier to focus when you have a simpler life. I was just clarifying an important part of the context of the mortgage argument because you seemed to strawman it to be only about the monetary transaction. For some, renting helps simplify their life. It’s not a difficult through line to follow and I don’t think it’s extraordinarily controversial, despite your consistent mischaracterization. (I never said, for example, that “only” renters can succeed). Do you think it’s easier to succeed running one business or a dozen? Why?
    - lapcat 4y ago
      > I don’t think it’s extraordinarily controversial Do you have any evidence that people generally believe that renting is more conducive to success than homeowning? Should we take it as advice? "If you want to maximize your chances of success, don't buy a house!" Strangely though, most successful people do own a home. Sometimes more than one! When exactly is it ok to buy a home, and why do successful people do it, if it makes them less focused? > Do you think it’s easier to succeed running one business or a dozen? Why? A dozen, of course. Because if you're running a dozen businesses, you likely have a lot of financial resources. And since many businesses fail, you have a greater chance of at least one of them succeeding. (Do I even need to mention that the richest person in the world has multiple businesses and is trying to buy yet another?)
      - bumby 4y ago
        How do you define success? That definition seems pretty central to each of your questions.

Qem 4y ago

I'd add disease to that list. Once I got past 30 and put in some weight, just sitting to study became harder, as back pain/discomfort comes real quickly. Around my 20s I just sat hours straight and read entire books on a computer screen, or spent a entire afternoon doing math exercises. Now with a single hour sitting my back already starts hurting, and my focus is broken.

lapcat 4y ago
> Once I got past 30 and put in some weight, just sitting to study became harder, as back pain/discomfort comes real quickly. Sorry to hear that. Have you seen a doctor? This is not something that typically happens to 30somethings.
- Qem 4y ago
  > Sorry to hear that. Have you seen a doctor? This is not something that typically happens to 30somethings. Yeah. Got pretty standard advice from him. Exercise more, lose weight, book some pilates sessions, pause more often, stretch more often... The point is, your self-maintenance burden only grows as you age, and it starts chewing away time you could spend otherwise. When you're younger, given you have the basics of life taken care by your family, it's easier to give a ton of attention to a few things (say, videogames or even the next big scientific breakthrough) at expense of everything else.
  - lapcat 4y ago
    > your self-maintenance burden only grows as you age People of all ages ought to exercise. Young people often play sports, no? > given you have the basics of life taken care by your family, it's easier to give a ton of attention to a few things (say, videogames or even the next big scientific breakthrough) I'm not aware of any big scientific breakthroughs achieved by teenagers living at home with their parents.
    - JadeNB 4y ago
      > > given you have the basics of life taken care by your family, it's easier to give a ton of attention to a few things (say, videogames or even the next big scientific breakthrough) > I'm not aware of any big scientific breakthroughs achieved by teenagers living at home with their parents. As a 41-year-old, I'm incentivized not to believe that math is a young person's game, and so agree with you; but one could try to disagree with you by suggesting that it's a sweet spot: the years, say, mid-20s to late-30s are the time when the accumulating benefit of knowledge and experience has not yet been outweighed by the accumulating burden of age and responsibility. (And one could, of course, argue against this argument; I think that there is no valid conclusion but "it depends.") I would also suggest that there probably are breakthroughs achieved by teenagers living at home with their parents! I think, for a recent example, of https://www.wuft.org/news/2022/02/18/buchholz-high-school-student-discovers-and-publishes-new-calculus-technique https://www.wuft.org/news/2022/02/18/buchholz-high-school-st... .