4 ms·

If I'm understanding the attack correctly, its surprising there is not more along these lines - specifically the "trigger big tech company's automate banning ag

If I'm understanding the attack correctly, its surprising there is not more along these lines - specifically the "trigger big tech company's automate banning against someone" attack. It wouldn't be surprising if this is fairly easy across a variety of "services"

heavyset_go 4y ago
It's been done as a trolling technique for ages.
- olliej 4y ago
  Yeah, if I'm understanding this isn't remotely new or novel? It's been a standard script kiddy attack since basically there were publication services where you could be banned/blocked/whatever by automated systems. Early blogs were frequent victims, surely earlier stuff was as well? Probably even basic BBSs had similar nonsense.
- rectang 4y ago
  But now it seems like there's more criminal profit potential in extortion, as creators are ever more dependent on ever-more-centralized services. A growth industry!
  - q-big 4y ago
    > as creators are ever more dependent on ever-more-centralized services. as creators decided to make themselves ever more dependent on ever-more-centralized services.
    - lmm 4y ago
      As a creator you've got to meet the audience where they are. The problem is the monopoly position of those services, and the anticompetitive practices they're able to follow as a result (e.g. banning creators from broadcasting the same content through multiple channels).
    - brokencode 4y ago
      Creators don’t control where the audience is. If there was a credible alternative to the centralized services, then maybe more creators would try that. Nebula is one example where some of the more education-focused channels have been posting videos. Not sure if it’s been successful though.
      - viraptor 4y ago
        I keep seeing channels being added to Nebula (feels like every week), so it's not bad. Then again, they have some persisting issues in the app, so it doesn't sound like lots of engineering capacity is available.
      - t-3 4y ago
        I don't buy it. Creators make audiences, and platforms know this. Users have to take what they get, but producers have options. This is why YouTube hosts content for free, makes advertising and monetizing easy, works to lower the barriers to entry and make independence unnattractive. If creators switched to distributing through their own servers or a different CDN or IPFS or bittorrent or whatever, they would have to figure out the fiddly unfun bits on their own.
        macintux 4y ago
        Abandoning YouTube for any one creator would more likely result in the audience spending their attention on someone with similar content. What seems necessary (to this ignorant observer) is a union to negotiate with Google or move everyone en masse to a different platform.
        tehwebguy 4y ago
        Tell that to Vessel & Quibi!
        t-3 4y ago
        Sure, competing platforms will be differentiated by their userbase, unless they're offering very favorable terms or paying for exclusivity. It's not like one platform is going to be all that different from the next. What reason is behind TikTok's rapid rise?
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      > creators decided to make themselves ever more dependent Historically some people have decided to sell themselves into slavery, should we respect their freedom of choice?
    - DrewADesign 4y ago
      The FOSS community needs to stop getting so defensive about usability criticism and start seriously considering non-technical users if decentralized media platforms will ever stand a chance at being a viable solution. Not just interface layout or visual themes, either— design is a lot more than the way something looks. The whole experience from learning about the platform to becoming a regular user— including for people who don't read man pages on a regular basis— is important. As soon as I need to explain to my parents that "yes, it's all PeerTube but PeerTube is just the server software and my cousin's PeerTube instance they signed up with isn't connected to the PeerTube federated service and so they can't see videos from the the PeerTube for their guitar hobby group" then its all over. There is zero point zero percent chance it will become a viable public service without big changes.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  That’s not trolling.
  - m0llusk 4y ago
    Trolling pupated into a matured form with stronger attacks and stealth.
    - misterkrabs 4y ago
      "This isn't even my final form"
  - heavyset_go 4y ago
    I'm using "trolling" as a word to describe the harassment self-described "trolls" often engage in. A purist definition of trolling seems to have morphed into shitposting, just general satire, leaving the /s out of posts, etc.
jasonjayr 4y ago
It's just a less lethal form of SWAT'ing, which has been done. "Trigger a response targeted at the person I'm attacking frome someone or something stronger than I or them ..."
- infogulch 4y ago
  It's kinda like a DoS amplification attack, but amplifying authority instead of bandwidth.
  - DarylZero 4y ago
    There's an established word for it: "framing" (or "frame-up").
thayne 4y ago
There's probably a lot more that you don't hear about.

heavyset_go 4y ago

It's been done as a trolling technique for ages.

olliej 4y ago
Yeah, if I'm understanding this isn't remotely new or novel? It's been a standard script kiddy attack since basically there were publication services where you could be banned/blocked/whatever by automated systems. Early blogs were frequent victims, surely earlier stuff was as well? Probably even basic BBSs had similar nonsense.
rectang 4y ago
But now it seems like there's more criminal profit potential in extortion, as creators are ever more dependent on ever-more-centralized services. A growth industry!
- q-big 4y ago
  > as creators are ever more dependent on ever-more-centralized services. as creators decided to make themselves ever more dependent on ever-more-centralized services.
  - lmm 4y ago
    As a creator you've got to meet the audience where they are. The problem is the monopoly position of those services, and the anticompetitive practices they're able to follow as a result (e.g. banning creators from broadcasting the same content through multiple channels).
  - brokencode 4y ago
    Creators don’t control where the audience is. If there was a credible alternative to the centralized services, then maybe more creators would try that. Nebula is one example where some of the more education-focused channels have been posting videos. Not sure if it’s been successful though.
    - viraptor 4y ago
      I keep seeing channels being added to Nebula (feels like every week), so it's not bad. Then again, they have some persisting issues in the app, so it doesn't sound like lots of engineering capacity is available.
    - t-3 4y ago
      I don't buy it. Creators make audiences, and platforms know this. Users have to take what they get, but producers have options. This is why YouTube hosts content for free, makes advertising and monetizing easy, works to lower the barriers to entry and make independence unnattractive. If creators switched to distributing through their own servers or a different CDN or IPFS or bittorrent or whatever, they would have to figure out the fiddly unfun bits on their own.
      - macintux 4y ago
        Abandoning YouTube for any one creator would more likely result in the audience spending their attention on someone with similar content. What seems necessary (to this ignorant observer) is a union to negotiate with Google or move everyone en masse to a different platform.
      - tehwebguy 4y ago
        Tell that to Vessel & Quibi!
        t-3 4y ago
        Sure, competing platforms will be differentiated by their userbase, unless they're offering very favorable terms or paying for exclusivity. It's not like one platform is going to be all that different from the next. What reason is behind TikTok's rapid rise?
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > creators decided to make themselves ever more dependent Historically some people have decided to sell themselves into slavery, should we respect their freedom of choice?
  - DrewADesign 4y ago
    The FOSS community needs to stop getting so defensive about usability criticism and start seriously considering non-technical users if decentralized media platforms will ever stand a chance at being a viable solution. Not just interface layout or visual themes, either— design is a lot more than the way something looks. The whole experience from learning about the platform to becoming a regular user— including for people who don't read man pages on a regular basis— is important. As soon as I need to explain to my parents that "yes, it's all PeerTube but PeerTube is just the server software and my cousin's PeerTube instance they signed up with isn't connected to the PeerTube federated service and so they can't see videos from the the PeerTube for their guitar hobby group" then its all over. There is zero point zero percent chance it will become a viable public service without big changes.
coffeeblack 4y ago
That’s not trolling.
- m0llusk 4y ago
  Trolling pupated into a matured form with stronger attacks and stealth.
  - misterkrabs 4y ago
    "This isn't even my final form"
- heavyset_go 4y ago
  I'm using "trolling" as a word to describe the harassment self-described "trolls" often engage in. A purist definition of trolling seems to have morphed into shitposting, just general satire, leaving the /s out of posts, etc.

jasonjayr 4y ago

It's just a less lethal form of SWAT'ing, which has been done. "Trigger a response targeted at the person I'm attacking frome someone or something stronger than I or them ..."

infogulch 4y ago
It's kinda like a DoS amplification attack, but amplifying authority instead of bandwidth.
- DarylZero 4y ago
  There's an established word for it: "framing" (or "frame-up").

thayne 4y ago

There's probably a lot more that you don't hear about.