4 ms·

"Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases" Wait --- 'obviously'?!? Do you have any info on this because that is a wild cl

"Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases" Wait --- 'obviously'?!? Do you have any info on this because that is a wild claim.

hosteur 4y ago
Snowden docs
charles_kaw 4y ago
>Do you have any info on this because that is a wild claim. Not only has the concept and implementation of automated law enforcement portals been around since the 90s, the Snowden docs revealed that major providers were providing such portals. AND that their inter-datacenter communications were being piped directly into global intelligence databases without. These portals, NSLs, and other mechanisms have also been codified into law for over a decade, and their existence is extremely well documented as well as reinforced. It sounds like a wild claim, but unfortunately, it is extremely based in reality. And, it's so well documented that to be ignorant of it at this point is akin to incompetence.
- mden 4y ago
  You're making a wildly different claim than the initial one. The initial claim is "obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases". Portals for law enforcement which likely require some kind of warrant and very likely have regular audits are not slightly the same thing as directly piping the data to the intelligence community. As for "their inter-datacenter communications were being piped directly", that was revealed by Snowden and you correctly used the past tense "were". Is there evidence that either Alphabet or Meta are giving direct access to their users' data beyond what the law requires? (Disclaimer, employee of Google, my opinions are my own and all that. I have no info beyond what is public knowledge.)
  - bhk 4y ago
    > Portals for law enforcement which likely require some kind of warrant It was recently reported that major tech companies (including Google) release user data without warrants, and without even authenticating the party requesting the data: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30842757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30842757
    - mden 4y ago
      That's an interesting article, thanks for the link. It doesn't support the original claim very strongly however. It showcases there's a flawed process for obtaining user data (which is still obviously bad) but it's far removed from Microsoft, Google, or Fb directly piping their data over to the NSA.
  - doliveira 4y ago
    Lots of "likely" and "were" in your comment... I'll be honest, this is really the first time I've seen a tech circle in which this whole surveillance apparatus is not a common established knowledge.
    - mden 4y ago
      To be clear I'm not saying there isn't an extensive surveillance apparatus. I'm saying the claim that giant tech companies are willfully providing unrestricted access to user data to the intelligence community is not at all an "obvious" one as claimed and requires evidence. Do you disagree with that?
  - charles_kaw 4y ago
    > "obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases" well, they were. without google's consent :) past tense, obviously
doliveira 4y ago
We've known it for literally a decade now... How can you be ignorant of the whole Snowden docs?
tediousdemise 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore > XKeyscore (XKEYSCORE or XKS) is a secret computer system used by the United States National Security Agency (NSA) for searching and analyzing global Internet data > XKeyscore is a complicated system, and various authors have different interpretations of its actual capabilities. Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald explained XKeyscore as being a system which enables almost unlimited surveillance of anyone anywhere in the world, while the NSA has said that usage of the system is limited and restricted. Think about that for a split second: anyone, anywhere. Also, who would you trust more: the US government, or a man who sacrificed his life, health and wellbeing to expose this scandal to the world? Alas, privacy for the masses is dead.

"Obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases" Wait --- 'obviously'?!? Do you have any info on this because that is a wild claim.

hosteur 4y ago

Snowden docs

charles_kaw 4y ago

>Do you have any info on this because that is a wild claim. Not only has the concept and implementation of automated law enforcement portals been around since the 90s, the Snowden docs revealed that major providers were providing such portals. AND that their inter-datacenter communications were being piped directly into global intelligence databases without. These portals, NSLs, and other mechanisms have also been codified into law for over a decade, and their existence is extremely well documented as well as reinforced. It sounds like a wild claim, but unfortunately, it is extremely based in reality. And, it's so well documented that to be ignorant of it at this point is akin to incompetence.

mden 4y ago
You're making a wildly different claim than the initial one. The initial claim is "obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases". Portals for law enforcement which likely require some kind of warrant and very likely have regular audits are not slightly the same thing as directly piping the data to the intelligence community. As for "their inter-datacenter communications were being piped directly", that was revealed by Snowden and you correctly used the past tense "were". Is there evidence that either Alphabet or Meta are giving direct access to their users' data beyond what the law requires? (Disclaimer, employee of Google, my opinions are my own and all that. I have no info beyond what is public knowledge.)
- bhk 4y ago
  > Portals for law enforcement which likely require some kind of warrant It was recently reported that major tech companies (including Google) release user data without warrants, and without even authenticating the party requesting the data: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30842757 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30842757
  - mden 4y ago
    That's an interesting article, thanks for the link. It doesn't support the original claim very strongly however. It showcases there's a flawed process for obtaining user data (which is still obviously bad) but it's far removed from Microsoft, Google, or Fb directly piping their data over to the NSA.
- doliveira 4y ago
  Lots of "likely" and "were" in your comment... I'll be honest, this is really the first time I've seen a tech circle in which this whole surveillance apparatus is not a common established knowledge.
  - mden 4y ago
    To be clear I'm not saying there isn't an extensive surveillance apparatus. I'm saying the claim that giant tech companies are willfully providing unrestricted access to user data to the intelligence community is not at all an "obvious" one as claimed and requires evidence. Do you disagree with that?
- charles_kaw 4y ago
  > "obviously Gmail and such are piped directly into global intelligence databases" well, they were. without google's consent :) past tense, obviously

doliveira 4y ago

We've known it for literally a decade now... How can you be ignorant of the whole Snowden docs?

tediousdemise 4y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XKeyscore > XKeyscore (XKEYSCORE or XKS) is a secret computer system used by the United States National Security Agency (NSA) for searching and analyzing global Internet data > XKeyscore is a complicated system, and various authors have different interpretations of its actual capabilities. Edward Snowden and Glenn Greenwald explained XKeyscore as being a system which enables almost unlimited surveillance of anyone anywhere in the world, while the NSA has said that usage of the system is limited and restricted. Think about that for a split second: anyone, anywhere. Also, who would you trust more: the US government, or a man who sacrificed his life, health and wellbeing to expose this scandal to the world? Alas, privacy for the masses is dead.