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Grew up in Texas but happily raising my son in Germany for many reasons, only one of which is that after the Erfurt high school massacre in 2002, the German par

Grew up in Texas but happily raising my son in Germany for many reasons, only one of which is that after the Erfurt high school massacre in 2002, the German parliament changed the gun ownership laws to ban ownership for under-21s, and to require under-25s to undergo a psych eval. Additionally, you have to either have passed a non-trivial hunting license exam (involving face-to-face classes) or be a member of a shooting club to get a firearms ownership permit, so there's some forced contact with other people who have the chance to point out that you might not be someone who should be trusted with firearm ownership. Further major tragedies have happened, both directly with guns (Winnenden, 2009; Munich, 2016) and indirect (Berlin Christmas market attack with lorry, the theft of which was enabled by a murder with a handgun), but are just so much rarer, along with far rarer smaller scale tragedies - I've never heard of a small child playing with a gun and shooting themselves or a sibling in the nearly two decades I've lived here. Speaking of which, that's going to be an awkward conversation with my dad and brother before bringing my kid to visit his other home country; I know that my dad kept a loaded handgun in his nightstand as of a few years ago due to very overblown fears of a home invasion.

dane-pgp 4y ago
> my dad kept a loaded handgun in his nightstand as of a few years ago due to very overblown fears of a home invasion. As you might guess, the statistics do not support his decision: "Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/
- dokem 4y ago
  > fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt Well good thing I'm an individual adult and, after assessing my lifestyle and level of fire-arm responsibility, feel confident that I have control over these scenarios (not) playing out. I don't have any control over someone breaking into my house at night.
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    I see what you're saying (and the statistic has other problems, for example not measuring break-ins that were unsuccessful or not attempted because of the gun) but not everyone may be as responsible as you. So, it can still be a net benefit to society to pass a law which reduces fatal accidents but increases break-ins. Also, I hope that you would sell your gun if you found yourself suffering from some symptoms of mental illness, or if you had children in the house. No one ever thinks that they will be the careless gun owner whose kid finds their gun, or the drunk gun owner who threatens their spouse.
  - MandieD 4y ago
    The Winnenden massacre was committed by a teenage boy whose father had a large collection of firearms that were carefully locked up... except for his automatic Beretta pistol.
- MandieD 4y ago
  This is one of those points on which I have realized that in many respects, my dad and I do not share a worldview, and live in such different worlds. Yes, I knew this. I have not bothered bringing it up with my dad, but may end up doing so in the course of making it clear that he can either have unsecured firearms or his grandson in his house and truck, but not both.
Peku 4y ago
The changes Germany made heavily made me think of the "well armed and regulated militia" mentioned in the US' 2nd amendment. One cannot say something is regulated without admitting fault and adjusting when needed until the issue appears less and less.
- MandieD 4y ago
  I happen to think that Germany has about the right balance of encouraging hunting that's beneficial to the environment and allowing traditional gunsmithing, while prioritizing the right of the vast majority of Germans who have no desire to be involved with firearms to live in peace.
- notch656a 4y ago
  But the right to keep and bear arms applies to the people rather than the "regulated" militia.

dane-pgp 4y ago

> my dad kept a loaded handgun in his nightstand as of a few years ago due to very overblown fears of a home invasion. As you might guess, the statistics do not support his decision: "Guns kept in homes are more likely to be involved in a fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt than to be used to injure or kill in self-defense." https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9715182/

dokem 4y ago
> fatal or nonfatal accidental shooting, criminal assault, or suicide attempt Well good thing I'm an individual adult and, after assessing my lifestyle and level of fire-arm responsibility, feel confident that I have control over these scenarios (not) playing out. I don't have any control over someone breaking into my house at night.
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  I see what you're saying (and the statistic has other problems, for example not measuring break-ins that were unsuccessful or not attempted because of the gun) but not everyone may be as responsible as you. So, it can still be a net benefit to society to pass a law which reduces fatal accidents but increases break-ins. Also, I hope that you would sell your gun if you found yourself suffering from some symptoms of mental illness, or if you had children in the house. No one ever thinks that they will be the careless gun owner whose kid finds their gun, or the drunk gun owner who threatens their spouse.
- MandieD 4y ago
  The Winnenden massacre was committed by a teenage boy whose father had a large collection of firearms that were carefully locked up... except for his automatic Beretta pistol.
MandieD 4y ago
This is one of those points on which I have realized that in many respects, my dad and I do not share a worldview, and live in such different worlds. Yes, I knew this. I have not bothered bringing it up with my dad, but may end up doing so in the course of making it clear that he can either have unsecured firearms or his grandson in his house and truck, but not both.

Peku 4y ago

The changes Germany made heavily made me think of the "well armed and regulated militia" mentioned in the US' 2nd amendment. One cannot say something is regulated without admitting fault and adjusting when needed until the issue appears less and less.

MandieD 4y ago
I happen to think that Germany has about the right balance of encouraging hunting that's beneficial to the environment and allowing traditional gunsmithing, while prioritizing the right of the vast majority of Germans who have no desire to be involved with firearms to live in peace.
notch656a 4y ago
But the right to keep and bear arms applies to the people rather than the "regulated" militia.