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> BMW's i4 and iX just came out, both of which appear to blow Tesla out of the fucking water. In what sense does it blow Tesla out of the water? A Model 3 gets

> BMW's i4 and iX just came out, both of which appear to blow Tesla out of the fucking water. In what sense does it blow Tesla out of the water? A Model 3 gets 334 miles of range and it MSRPs at $49K--the most you can get out of BMW seems to be 315 and it costs almost double. > The Ford Lightning has sold out several years worth of production. That only speaks to Ford's marketing. > GM has the Ultium platform in production (Hummer) which will soon serve as the base for a number of models. Personally I'm not keen on a 9klb car. > Just get in, use the "gear" selector, and drive. Tesla has had that for a while now, and it works pretty well. I'm not sure why you'd "come out of the driver's seat" while backing up, but my Tesla doesn't shut off. > Then they had to go and infantilize the climate control system. I wish I were joking when you tap a "I'm cold" button or "I can't see out the windshield" to get things to happen. Apparently VW's IQ team thinks people are absolute imbeciles. Tesla probably beats them for the stupidest climate control system. If anyone in the car wants to adjust their seat heaters, it automatically turns on the heat or A/C, so you have to open up the climate control menu (which automatically turns on heat or A/C), adjust seat heaters, turn off the heat/AC, and then close the menu. Similarly, the defrost buttons always turn the fan up to the max (and you can't turn it back down) and they also turn up either heat or AC to the max as well. So you're getting blasted in the face with either super hot air or super cold air, so in practice you toggle it on until you're uncomfortable, then turn it off, then wait for the windshield to fog up again, and repeat. As if that weren't enough, there's no way to tell it to warm up or cool down, you have to set the exact temperature. So I guess you're supposed to carry a thermostat with you so you know what temperature it is currently, and then you can turn on your climate control and tell Tesla to make it a little warmer or colder.

Kirby64 4y ago
To your point on the Model 3, I think you forgot to unselect the 'including incentives' button on the Model 3. The actual MSRP for the 356 mi (not 334, 334 is with the 19" wheels) Model 3 is $56k. In comparison, the i4 is 55k MSRP for the base one, certain not double the price (at least, at MSRP). That said, I see some things I see as important differences at those MSRP points: * Model 3 has their basic autopilot included in that price. BMW for adaptive cruise features and parking adds another $2400. Also, BMW assistant seems much, much more limited than the Tesla system based on the description. * Model 3 includes their 'premium' audio, that's another $875 from BMW. * Model 3 includes heated seats/steering wheel, lumbar support, etc. That's a $950 add-on from BMW. * BMW offers ventilated front seats, which is not offered by Tesla on the Model 3; that said, it's a $350 option. plus requires the $1.5k leather option as well. * Model 3 is AWD. BMW is RWD only. AWD only comes on the m50 model, which also has lower range (and more expensive by 10k) * Model 3 is much faster (5.4 for BMW, 4.2 for Tesla) * BMW allows 4 different synthetic color choices for free. Model 3 non-black (white) is a $1000. BMW also offers leather colorways for $1500 * BMW offers dash trim options for free. Tesla one is tied to their seat color choice * Fancy headlights are $1000 extra from BMW. Standard with a Tesla * "Drive recorder" is $100 from BMW. Free w/ Tesla Some of those are pretty substantial differences, and may be another $5k on top. That's also not counting any potential dealer markups that might be in place. You can argue about BMW vs Tesla quality, but if you're purely talking feature-set, Tesla seems to be winning handily. That said, there are certain things that may be really important to a BMW buyer (colorways, customization) that just are not offered by Tesla and could be a deal-breaker.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  > To your point on the Model 3, I think you forgot to unselect the 'including incentives' button on the Model 3. The actual MSRP for the 356 mi (not 334, 334 is with the 19" wheels) Model 3 is $56k. You're correct, I did forget to unselect that option. > In comparison, the i4 is 55k MSRP for the base one, certain not double the price (at least, at MSRP). The i4 gets less range. The max range option is the iX, and that only gets 315. Your options comparison was interesting, although I don't much like adaptive cruise control or lane assist on my model Y (phantom braking) and would pay more to have a standard cruise control option--it's pretty nice that BWM offers it for free!
  - Kirby64 4y ago
    The BMW iX is a crossover/SUV. A fairer comparison of that car is the Model X, which is much more closely priced to the iX. The Model Y, although cheaper, isn't really the same size car so the X is a closer comparison. And then you're neck-and-neck in pricing (assuming MSRP) for those two.
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      Agreed, but my requirement is max range, not comparable class. The only way to get 315 miles of range out of BMW is to spend $100k.

Kirby64 4y ago

To your point on the Model 3, I think you forgot to unselect the 'including incentives' button on the Model 3. The actual MSRP for the 356 mi (not 334, 334 is with the 19" wheels) Model 3 is $56k. In comparison, the i4 is 55k MSRP for the base one, certain not double the price (at least, at MSRP). That said, I see some things I see as important differences at those MSRP points: * Model 3 has their basic autopilot included in that price. BMW for adaptive cruise features and parking adds another $2400. Also, BMW assistant seems much, much more limited than the Tesla system based on the description. * Model 3 includes their 'premium' audio, that's another $875 from BMW. * Model 3 includes heated seats/steering wheel, lumbar support, etc. That's a $950 add-on from BMW. * BMW offers ventilated front seats, which is not offered by Tesla on the Model 3; that said, it's a $350 option. plus requires the $1.5k leather option as well. * Model 3 is AWD. BMW is RWD only. AWD only comes on the m50 model, which also has lower range (and more expensive by 10k) * Model 3 is much faster (5.4 for BMW, 4.2 for Tesla) * BMW allows 4 different synthetic color choices for free. Model 3 non-black (white) is a $1000. BMW also offers leather colorways for $1500 * BMW offers dash trim options for free. Tesla one is tied to their seat color choice * Fancy headlights are $1000 extra from BMW. Standard with a Tesla * "Drive recorder" is $100 from BMW. Free w/ Tesla Some of those are pretty substantial differences, and may be another $5k on top. That's also not counting any potential dealer markups that might be in place. You can argue about BMW vs Tesla quality, but if you're purely talking feature-set, Tesla seems to be winning handily. That said, there are certain things that may be really important to a BMW buyer (colorways, customization) that just are not offered by Tesla and could be a deal-breaker.

throwaway894345 4y ago
> To your point on the Model 3, I think you forgot to unselect the 'including incentives' button on the Model 3. The actual MSRP for the 356 mi (not 334, 334 is with the 19" wheels) Model 3 is $56k. You're correct, I did forget to unselect that option. > In comparison, the i4 is 55k MSRP for the base one, certain not double the price (at least, at MSRP). The i4 gets less range. The max range option is the iX, and that only gets 315. Your options comparison was interesting, although I don't much like adaptive cruise control or lane assist on my model Y (phantom braking) and would pay more to have a standard cruise control option--it's pretty nice that BWM offers it for free!
- Kirby64 4y ago
  The BMW iX is a crossover/SUV. A fairer comparison of that car is the Model X, which is much more closely priced to the iX. The Model Y, although cheaper, isn't really the same size car so the X is a closer comparison. And then you're neck-and-neck in pricing (assuming MSRP) for those two.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    Agreed, but my requirement is max range, not comparable class. The only way to get 315 miles of range out of BMW is to spend $100k.