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> it predates DNS or even IPv4 I don't know about IPv4... IPv4 was RFC 760 (Jan 1980) while SMTP was RFC 821 (Aug 1982). DNS was certainly later, RFC 1034 (N

> it predates DNS or even IPv4 I don't know about IPv4... IPv4 was RFC 760 (Jan 1980) while SMTP was RFC 821 (Aug 1982). DNS was certainly later, RFC 1034 (Nov 1987).

tremon 4y ago
I can't confirm nor deny any claims about protocol age, but still want to point out that the RFC numbering only indicates the order in which these protocols were standardized (or at least proposed for standardization), not when they were first used.
- technothrasher 4y ago
  Sure, and they both had several predecessors. But everything sort of blends together if you don't pick a specific point to define when a protocol 'begins'. Standardization through RFC seems like the best choice for the core internet protocols.
  - zinekeller 4y ago
    Nope, SMTP is the older one. RFC 821 standardized SMTP, RFC 760 created IPv4, and in fact if you read RFC 801 it required a switchover from the previous Network Control Protocol (NCP) to then-new TCP/IP on the start of 1983. As the grandparent points out: > RFC numbering only indicates the order in which these protocols were standardized (or at least proposed for standardization), not when they were first used. Even today, many things are de-facto implemented before standardized so I personally don't think that it's correct to look at the RFC date as the date to consider.
jcranmer 4y ago
The first SMTP RFC is RFC 788, not RFC 821. RFC 780 and RFC 772 are RFCs for MTP. IPv4 is defined by RFC 760 and RFC 791, although I don't know if RFC 760 actually implements something that looks like modern IPv4 (one of the challenges with old RFCs is that they were actually requests for comment, and I don't have a good sense of when this practice actually stopped). I was going by Wikipedia's dates, which give the actual use of IPv4 on ARPANET as January 1983, which I believe postdates the actual use of SMTP on ARPANET.
- zinekeller 4y ago
  > I was going by Wikipedia's dates, which give the actual use of IPv4 on ARPANET as January 1983, which I believe postdates the actual use of SMTP on ARPANET. This is documented on RFC 801 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc801 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc801), which literally just mandated use of the previous NCP until 1982 and then switch to the incompatible TCP/IP protocol stack in 1983. Imagine doing that with IPv4!

> it predates DNS or even IPv4 I don't know about IPv4... IPv4 was RFC 760 (Jan 1980) while SMTP was RFC 821 (Aug 1982). DNS was certainly later, RFC 1034 (Nov 1987).

tremon 4y ago

I can't confirm nor deny any claims about protocol age, but still want to point out that the RFC numbering only indicates the order in which these protocols were standardized (or at least proposed for standardization), not when they were first used.

technothrasher 4y ago
Sure, and they both had several predecessors. But everything sort of blends together if you don't pick a specific point to define when a protocol 'begins'. Standardization through RFC seems like the best choice for the core internet protocols.
- zinekeller 4y ago
  Nope, SMTP is the older one. RFC 821 standardized SMTP, RFC 760 created IPv4, and in fact if you read RFC 801 it required a switchover from the previous Network Control Protocol (NCP) to then-new TCP/IP on the start of 1983. As the grandparent points out: > RFC numbering only indicates the order in which these protocols were standardized (or at least proposed for standardization), not when they were first used. Even today, many things are de-facto implemented before standardized so I personally don't think that it's correct to look at the RFC date as the date to consider.

jcranmer 4y ago

The first SMTP RFC is RFC 788, not RFC 821. RFC 780 and RFC 772 are RFCs for MTP. IPv4 is defined by RFC 760 and RFC 791, although I don't know if RFC 760 actually implements something that looks like modern IPv4 (one of the challenges with old RFCs is that they were actually requests for comment, and I don't have a good sense of when this practice actually stopped). I was going by Wikipedia's dates, which give the actual use of IPv4 on ARPANET as January 1983, which I believe postdates the actual use of SMTP on ARPANET.

zinekeller 4y ago
> I was going by Wikipedia's dates, which give the actual use of IPv4 on ARPANET as January 1983, which I believe postdates the actual use of SMTP on ARPANET. This is documented on RFC 801 (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc801 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc801), which literally just mandated use of the previous NCP until 1982 and then switch to the incompatible TCP/IP protocol stack in 1983. Imagine doing that with IPv4!