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"The context for thinness was comparing it to other laptops brought up in this thread (I mentioned the Toshiba Portege a lot). The 13" Macbook Air is ~3 lbs, wi

"The context for thinness was comparing it to other laptops brought up in this thread (I mentioned the Toshiba Portege a lot). The 13" Macbook Air is ~3 lbs, within 10% of tons of other laptops." As I mentioned earlier, if a notebook is light but bulky, the build quality probably isn't great. "On my end, I've been using a 3.3 lbs (10% heavier than Air though 60% thicker) Latitude E4300 since mid-2009 that cost me far less than an Air would then" You want to compare your 2 year old notebook to a 2 year old MacBook Air? Even though the MacBook Air has become even more affordable since and the E4300 doesn't even exist anymore? Alright. The Latitude E4300 with 64GB SSD cost $2600 [1]. The MacBook Air with 128GB SSD cost $1800 [2]. "I certainly consider it a competitor to the Air. Would you not consider it as such?" Together with the Sony VAIO Z and the Lenovo X301, those were the only notebooks at that time that came anywhere close to the MacBook Air. That doesn't mean it qualifies as a competitor in 2011. The E4300 weighs 3.3 lbs and is 1.1" thick. The MacBook Air weighs 2.96 lbs and is 0.11-0.68" thick. That means the E4300 has more than twice as much mass; it might be ultra-light but it's definitely not ultra-portable according to today's standards. [1] http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/dell-latitude-e4300.aspx http://www.laptopmag.com/review/laptops/dell-latitude-e4300.... [2] http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook-air/stats/macbook-air-core-2-duo-2.13-13-mid-2009-specs.html http://www.everymac.com/systems/apple/macbook-air/stats/macb...

usaar333 15y ago
By double the mass, do you mean double the volume? Again, coming back to my original question, what is the advantage of doing thinner, assuming weight is approximately the same? The latitude (or equivalent models) is thicker, but I see a benefit with removal battery, HD, etc. I'm not seeing as strong a benefit with thinness. As an aside, the quoted prices seem extremely steep for the E4300, mostly because it is possible to get PC laptops on deep discounts and upgrade for far less than a manufacturer charges. I snagged mine in July '09 for $700. Doubled battery power for another $70. Didn't get an SSD until last year, but 128 GB models sold for around $320 then. Total cost ~$1,100. (I chose the Latitude as a comparison just to show that even older PC's (2009) were competitive with Airs (this one through 2010). Agreed, Dell doesn't make such a light laptop anymore, but others have taken its place.)
- Samuel_Michon 15y ago
  "By double the mass, do you mean double the volume?" Yes, that is what I meant. My bad. "The latitude (or equivalent models) is thicker, but I see a benefit with removal battery, HD, etc. I'm not seeing as strong a benefit with thinness." I don't see the benefits of having removable batteries and storage in an ultraportable. Why buy a light notebook when you're also planning to carry extra batteries and hard disks? To me, that defeats the purpose. Low volume and low weight are the key characteristics of ultraportables. I want a light notebook I can put in my backpack with plenty of space to spare, not a notebook I need to carry in a separate suitcase because it's so bulky. The reality is, I could put two MacBook Airs in my backpack and they still wouldn't take up as much space as your E4300 does. But from what I gather, you never really wanted an ultraportable, you want a mobile workstation. "it is possible to get PC laptops on deep discounts and upgrade for far less than a manufacturer charges. I snagged mine in July '09 for $700. Doubled battery power for another $70" That explains why the model isn't around anymore, doesn't it? Also why IBM sold its PC business and why HP is trying to do the same.
  - usaar333 15y ago
    I always wanted a super lightweight laptop that could serve as my sole laptop, which my current one fulfills. Extra batteries are for the occasional long periods without power (oversees flights, traveling in rural areas, etc.), though yes that is a 5% of the time use case. A modifiable HD is simply there to allow upgrades; I easily moved from an HDD to an SSD and could upgrade to a larger SSD easily in the future. Thanks for pointing out the backpack space advantage. To be honest, I've so rarely ever had a problem with backpack space (probably less often than needing extra battery power), it hadn't crossed my mind. (looking at the numbers, it makes sense I rarely run into such an issue: a 13" Air is 12.8"x8.94"x0.68"= 77.8 in^3 and a dell latitude is 12.2"8.6"x1.1"=115.4 in^3, a difference of 38 in^3. School backpacks typically have capacities 40 times that difference.) The price effect sucks for manufacturers, but is great for consumers. :) Truth be told, older Core 2 Duo machines will work fine for most people; my laptop might be old but I find there little reason to upgrade until there are reasonably priced, equally light laptops that can A) play modern games or B) operate at way lower power levels.

usaar333 15y ago

By double the mass, do you mean double the volume? Again, coming back to my original question, what is the advantage of doing thinner, assuming weight is approximately the same? The latitude (or equivalent models) is thicker, but I see a benefit with removal battery, HD, etc. I'm not seeing as strong a benefit with thinness. As an aside, the quoted prices seem extremely steep for the E4300, mostly because it is possible to get PC laptops on deep discounts and upgrade for far less than a manufacturer charges. I snagged mine in July '09 for $700. Doubled battery power for another $70. Didn't get an SSD until last year, but 128 GB models sold for around $320 then. Total cost ~$1,100. (I chose the Latitude as a comparison just to show that even older PC's (2009) were competitive with Airs (this one through 2010). Agreed, Dell doesn't make such a light laptop anymore, but others have taken its place.)

Samuel_Michon 15y ago
"By double the mass, do you mean double the volume?" Yes, that is what I meant. My bad. "The latitude (or equivalent models) is thicker, but I see a benefit with removal battery, HD, etc. I'm not seeing as strong a benefit with thinness." I don't see the benefits of having removable batteries and storage in an ultraportable. Why buy a light notebook when you're also planning to carry extra batteries and hard disks? To me, that defeats the purpose. Low volume and low weight are the key characteristics of ultraportables. I want a light notebook I can put in my backpack with plenty of space to spare, not a notebook I need to carry in a separate suitcase because it's so bulky. The reality is, I could put two MacBook Airs in my backpack and they still wouldn't take up as much space as your E4300 does. But from what I gather, you never really wanted an ultraportable, you want a mobile workstation. "it is possible to get PC laptops on deep discounts and upgrade for far less than a manufacturer charges. I snagged mine in July '09 for $700. Doubled battery power for another $70" That explains why the model isn't around anymore, doesn't it? Also why IBM sold its PC business and why HP is trying to do the same.
- usaar333 15y ago
  I always wanted a super lightweight laptop that could serve as my sole laptop, which my current one fulfills. Extra batteries are for the occasional long periods without power (oversees flights, traveling in rural areas, etc.), though yes that is a 5% of the time use case. A modifiable HD is simply there to allow upgrades; I easily moved from an HDD to an SSD and could upgrade to a larger SSD easily in the future. Thanks for pointing out the backpack space advantage. To be honest, I've so rarely ever had a problem with backpack space (probably less often than needing extra battery power), it hadn't crossed my mind. (looking at the numbers, it makes sense I rarely run into such an issue: a 13" Air is 12.8"x8.94"x0.68"= 77.8 in^3 and a dell latitude is 12.2"8.6"x1.1"=115.4 in^3, a difference of 38 in^3. School backpacks typically have capacities 40 times that difference.) The price effect sucks for manufacturers, but is great for consumers. :) Truth be told, older Core 2 Duo machines will work fine for most people; my laptop might be old but I find there little reason to upgrade until there are reasonably priced, equally light laptops that can A) play modern games or B) operate at way lower power levels.