4 ms·

blow tesla out of the water how? also telsas have the same (similar?) keyless/buttonless system as the VW (though it just parks, doesn't shut off the car)

by cobalt 4y ago

bdcravens 4y ago
Every review of the i4 says that it has the fit and finish that you expect with a BMW. Obviously there are other criteria that matter, like range, etc, that Tesla is still in the lead. However the compromises you may need to make with the a Tesla are becoming less tolerable as you see more options in the market. Tesla's lead will not hold.
- throwaway894345 4y ago
  I would take those reviews with a big grain of salt; those reviewers are in tight with legacy auto manufacturers (I forget which, but one of the big auto magazines didn't even include Tesla in their rankings for top 2022 EVs). Also, surely "range" is one of the dominating factors in purchasing an EV, right? I'll tolerate some fit and finish issues so long as I don't have to stop to charge every hour (assuming I can even find a charger). I believe other auto manufacturers will eventually catch up, but not until they catch up on range and charging network.
  - gnicholas 4y ago
    > Also, surely "range" is one of the dominating factors in purchasing an EV, right? Definitely true when the range was around 100 or 150 miles. Less true when the range is closer to 300. > I'll tolerate some fit and finish issues so long as I don't have to stop to charge every hour (assuming I can even find a charger). Are there any Tesla competitors that have so little range that they need to be charged every hour?
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      > Definitely true when the range was around 100 or 150 miles. Less true when the range is closer to 300. 300 rated miles is closer to 200 actual miles when you account for cold weather, head winds, and not charging to 100% at each station along the route (usually you only charge to ~60-80%). If you're only driving around town, that's fine, but road trips are going to suck below 300 (visiting family in another state during the holidays?) especially if your charging network sucks (even on Tesla's network there are some butt-clenching stretches). > Are there any Tesla competitors that have so little range that they need to be charged every hour? I'm pretty sure my Model Y needs to be charged every couple of hours of highway driving in the winter (maybe even less? I'm not sure) and its rated for ~320 miles. Based on that, I would guess that some of the 200-250 rated cars are coming in pretty close to charging every hour. Whether it's an hour or an hour and twenty minutes, I'm not interested.
      - gnicholas 4y ago
        Sure, I get that winter affects things — I wasn't referring to the worst-case scenario for charging. People who road-trip in cold weather (and don't have a second vehicle) will continue to care about max range for longer than other folks. In warmer parts of the country/world, I think range anxiety/concern will tail off pretty soon. There are other valid concerns of course; where I live, issues with the electric grid make it dicey to have only EVs.
        throwaway894345 4y ago
        > In warmer parts of the country/world, I think range anxiety/concern will tail off pretty soon. Even the warmer parts of the country get pretty cold (it was 20 degrees all over the southwest when I roadtripped in January). If you live near a coast maybe it's mild enough that you won't notice it. I'll hazard a (probably ignorant) guess, but I would think most of the reliably-warm world is either too poor for an EV or they don't have reliable electricity or both.
  - gamblor956 4y ago
    Also, surely "range" is one of the dominating factors in purchasing an EV, right? I'll tolerate some fit and finish issues so long as I don't have to stop to charge every hour (assuming I can even find a charger). No, for the same reason that "size of gas tank" isn't a dominant factor in purchasing an ICE vehicle. Modern EVs don't need to be charged every hour, unless you're planning on getting the Hummer EV. Tesla does have a superior charging network. However, several other cars have better range than Tesla.
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      > No, for the same reason that "size of gas tank" isn't a dominant factor in purchasing an ICE vehicle. Gas tank size doesn’t matter because it takes 2 minutes to fill a tank and there are gas stations every few miles. The EV situation is at least an order of magnitude worse in both cases. It’s a completely different game.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    Range is important, but the differences diminish once we get above 250 or 300 miles. Especially for what may be typical, where you charge nightly at home. Those who regularly drive for a living may have a different perspective. Looking past reviews and whatnot, I can't ignore some of the bigger safety concerns, like randomly catching on fire. An extra 20 or 30 miles of range is irrelevant in that case. (to be fair, maybe that's a general EV issue, and Tesla is known only because of the volume of that market they own)
    - throwaway894345 4y ago
      I don’t drive for a living—on the contrary, I work from home. But I do make a lot of trips out of state—we have a lot of family in a 5-7 hour radius, not to mention regional recreational traveling. Realistically a 5 hour drive is 6 hours with 2 charging stops and my car is rated for 330 miles. A 7 hour drive is probably at least 8.5 hours. It’s considerably worse in the winter. I would never want to drop down to 250 miles of range.
  - bdcravens 4y ago
    Many of those same sites rank Tesla highly as well. Knowing how Tesla uses NDAs as a tool, I wouldn't be surprised if there's gaming there as well.

blow tesla out of the water how? also telsas have the same (similar?) keyless/buttonless system as the VW (though it just parks, doesn't shut off the car)

by cobalt 4y ago

blow tesla out of the water how? also telsas have the same (similar?) keyless/buttonless system as the VW (though it just parks, doesn't shut off the car)

bdcravens 4y ago

Every review of the i4 says that it has the fit and finish that you expect with a BMW. Obviously there are other criteria that matter, like range, etc, that Tesla is still in the lead. However the compromises you may need to make with the a Tesla are becoming less tolerable as you see more options in the market. Tesla's lead will not hold.

throwaway894345 4y ago
I would take those reviews with a big grain of salt; those reviewers are in tight with legacy auto manufacturers (I forget which, but one of the big auto magazines didn't even include Tesla in their rankings for top 2022 EVs). Also, surely "range" is one of the dominating factors in purchasing an EV, right? I'll tolerate some fit and finish issues so long as I don't have to stop to charge every hour (assuming I can even find a charger). I believe other auto manufacturers will eventually catch up, but not until they catch up on range and charging network.
- gnicholas 4y ago
  > Also, surely "range" is one of the dominating factors in purchasing an EV, right? Definitely true when the range was around 100 or 150 miles. Less true when the range is closer to 300. > I'll tolerate some fit and finish issues so long as I don't have to stop to charge every hour (assuming I can even find a charger). Are there any Tesla competitors that have so little range that they need to be charged every hour?
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    > Definitely true when the range was around 100 or 150 miles. Less true when the range is closer to 300. 300 rated miles is closer to 200 actual miles when you account for cold weather, head winds, and not charging to 100% at each station along the route (usually you only charge to ~60-80%). If you're only driving around town, that's fine, but road trips are going to suck below 300 (visiting family in another state during the holidays?) especially if your charging network sucks (even on Tesla's network there are some butt-clenching stretches). > Are there any Tesla competitors that have so little range that they need to be charged every hour? I'm pretty sure my Model Y needs to be charged every couple of hours of highway driving in the winter (maybe even less? I'm not sure) and its rated for ~320 miles. Based on that, I would guess that some of the 200-250 rated cars are coming in pretty close to charging every hour. Whether it's an hour or an hour and twenty minutes, I'm not interested.
    - gnicholas 4y ago
      Sure, I get that winter affects things — I wasn't referring to the worst-case scenario for charging. People who road-trip in cold weather (and don't have a second vehicle) will continue to care about max range for longer than other folks. In warmer parts of the country/world, I think range anxiety/concern will tail off pretty soon. There are other valid concerns of course; where I live, issues with the electric grid make it dicey to have only EVs.
      - throwaway894345 4y ago
        > In warmer parts of the country/world, I think range anxiety/concern will tail off pretty soon. Even the warmer parts of the country get pretty cold (it was 20 degrees all over the southwest when I roadtripped in January). If you live near a coast maybe it's mild enough that you won't notice it. I'll hazard a (probably ignorant) guess, but I would think most of the reliably-warm world is either too poor for an EV or they don't have reliable electricity or both.
- gamblor956 4y ago
  Also, surely "range" is one of the dominating factors in purchasing an EV, right? I'll tolerate some fit and finish issues so long as I don't have to stop to charge every hour (assuming I can even find a charger). No, for the same reason that "size of gas tank" isn't a dominant factor in purchasing an ICE vehicle. Modern EVs don't need to be charged every hour, unless you're planning on getting the Hummer EV. Tesla does have a superior charging network. However, several other cars have better range than Tesla.
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    > No, for the same reason that "size of gas tank" isn't a dominant factor in purchasing an ICE vehicle. Gas tank size doesn’t matter because it takes 2 minutes to fill a tank and there are gas stations every few miles. The EV situation is at least an order of magnitude worse in both cases. It’s a completely different game.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  Range is important, but the differences diminish once we get above 250 or 300 miles. Especially for what may be typical, where you charge nightly at home. Those who regularly drive for a living may have a different perspective. Looking past reviews and whatnot, I can't ignore some of the bigger safety concerns, like randomly catching on fire. An extra 20 or 30 miles of range is irrelevant in that case. (to be fair, maybe that's a general EV issue, and Tesla is known only because of the volume of that market they own)
  - throwaway894345 4y ago
    I don’t drive for a living—on the contrary, I work from home. But I do make a lot of trips out of state—we have a lot of family in a 5-7 hour radius, not to mention regional recreational traveling. Realistically a 5 hour drive is 6 hours with 2 charging stops and my car is rated for 330 miles. A 7 hour drive is probably at least 8.5 hours. It’s considerably worse in the winter. I would never want to drop down to 250 miles of range.
- bdcravens 4y ago
  Many of those same sites rank Tesla highly as well. Knowing how Tesla uses NDAs as a tool, I wouldn't be surprised if there's gaming there as well.