4 ms·

This is an extremely well written article and like mentioned elsewhere the link for this should be changed to: https://magazine.atavist.com/a-crime-beyond-belie

This is an extremely well written article and like mentioned elsewhere the link for this should be changed to: https://magazine.atavist.com/a-crime-beyond-belief-vallejo-kidnapping-gone-girl-hoax/ https://magazine.atavist.com/a-crime-beyond-belief-vallejo-k... Once again we have irrefutable evidence that the police, as a whole, are incompetent and concerned only with making the "facts" fit their preconceived notions. That they are incapable of even considering they could have gotten it wrong. When faced with pretty damming evidence against their idea of this being a fraud the captain said: > “We don’t know what the final outcome of this case is going to be,” Captain John Whitney told the Vallejo Times-Herald. “It’s important that we don’t jump to conclusions. They have no issue at all jumping to conclusions when it makes their job easier or when it lets them bend the facts to their initial suspicion. It's disgusting that we allow the police to lie to and treat suspects like this. Hours and hours of questioning attempting to break them down and have them question their own sanity. Let this be a lesson to anyone who hasn't already learned it: never talk to the police. Ever. Under no circumstances. They are not your friend, they will not help you, they are looking for an easy way to wrap up the case. If the police are trying to talk to you then you are in their sights and they would much rather pin it all on you rather than do their actual jobs. Always ask for a lawyer and never think "Well if I just tell them X they will let me go". I see no path forward for our current police in the US. It's not just bad apples, it's bad barrels and they will always choose to close ranks over rooting out the worst among them. Be sure, the cops who help cover up or know but stay silent are just as bad as the ones we would call "bad apples". The system is horribly broken.

dahfizz 4y ago
I always found the "bad apples" argument very ironic. The whole expression is "a few bad apples spoil the bunch". We are now left with a spoiled bunch.
- kipchak 4y ago
  I guess the idea is if a few bad apples spoil the bunch, you can save the bunch if you can remove the bad apples?
  - jjulius 4y ago
    But you can only save the bunch if you remove the bad apples in time. ;)
  - sharkjacobs 4y ago
    the idea is that if you seal up a barrel with a few bad apples, you will unseal a barrel full of bad apples
  - fknorangesite 4y ago
    > you can save the bunch if you can remove the bad apples? Sure, except the people making the "bad apples" argument don't want to do this part, either.
    - Tostino 4y ago
      And at this point, you need to remove all the other "apples" who have been tainted. That's the whole point, you need to act fast, or it will ruin the entire thing.
    - sleepybrett 4y ago
      Or in the case of most police departments, an apple goes bad (commits a crime) it gets put on suspension right next to the barrel while still being paid as the department 'investigates'. If it goes badly for the apple they get removed from the barrel, but then they either sue and get their job back and get put back into the barrel. Or move to next county and get put into their barrel.
  - uoaei 4y ago
    I recommend reading up on ethylene. "Paper bag" and "ripening" can also be included in the query for more practical applications.
  - lupire 4y ago
    Yes but the apples formed a union to prevent that.
    - 4y ago
rockemsockem 4y ago
I've taken to saying that instead there are a few good apples. Misty Carausu is definitely a good apple, but she seems like a major exception to the rule :/
shkkmo 4y ago
> never talk to the police. Ever. Under no circumstances. They are not your friend, they will not help you, they are looking for an easy way to wrap up the case. If the police are trying to talk to you then you are in their sights and they would much rather pin it all on you rather than do their actual jobs. Always ask for a lawyer and never think "Well if I just tell them X they will let me go". There are exceptions to this rule, and I think one is when your girlfriend has just been kidnapped. Sure, in this case the police did absolutely nothing to actually help save the girlfriend, but the chance they might help seems worth the risk of being deemed a suspect.
- joshstrange 4y ago
  I mean we have seen multiple cases (this one included) where the cops make you the primary suspect and will do anything they can to discredit you or catch you in a lie (even an unrelated lie that they use to "prove" you are guilty). I understand the desire to cooperate but with minor exceptions I'd still only talk to them through a lawyer or with one present. Cops are interested in really finding who is responsible, they are looking to close the file and you are right in front of them, a very tempting target.
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    > I'd still only talk to them through a lawyer or with one present. Yes, I think hiring a lawyer would also increase your chances if they can push the police towards continuing to investigate all possibilities (such as interviewing witnesses or testing all the samples as they failed to do in this case) or make them less likely to lie to you (as they did in this case about the lie detector test results).
    - joshstrange 4y ago
      I think a lot of people think "only guilty people/criminals ask for lawyers" (thanks largely TV shows and movies that show cops that never make mistakes and only criminals not cooperating) and/or think "If they just hear my side they will understand and agree with me". In a really gross way I think that getting a lawyer might make you look less attractive to the cops (harder to pin it on you now) and force them to look elsewhere along with your other points of using your lawyer as way to push the investigation on their own. Remember, most cops are looking for the path of least resistance, not the truth.
maerF0x0 4y ago
> When faced with pretty damming evidence against their idea of this being a fraud the captain said: Police Unions often have an ethos of "we protect our own" -- essentially gang mentality. I like the idea of policing, think they can play a very positive role in society, but also think that the unions and that mentality are deeply undermining those positives coming true.
jjtheblunt 4y ago
> Once again we have irrefutable evidence that the police, as a whole, are incompetent and concerned only with making the "facts" fit their preconceived notions. I think your point is made stronger without the hyperbole.
kibwen 4y ago
Everyone on HN already knows that you don't ever trust HR departments, despite how friendly they may seem, because their job is to protect the company from employees. By analogy, the police are the HR department of the state.
- fknorangesite 4y ago
  An armed HR department.

dahfizz 4y ago

I always found the "bad apples" argument very ironic. The whole expression is "a few bad apples spoil the bunch". We are now left with a spoiled bunch.

kipchak 4y ago
I guess the idea is if a few bad apples spoil the bunch, you can save the bunch if you can remove the bad apples?
- jjulius 4y ago
  But you can only save the bunch if you remove the bad apples in time. ;)
- sharkjacobs 4y ago
  the idea is that if you seal up a barrel with a few bad apples, you will unseal a barrel full of bad apples
- fknorangesite 4y ago
  > you can save the bunch if you can remove the bad apples? Sure, except the people making the "bad apples" argument don't want to do this part, either.
  - Tostino 4y ago
    And at this point, you need to remove all the other "apples" who have been tainted. That's the whole point, you need to act fast, or it will ruin the entire thing.
  - sleepybrett 4y ago
    Or in the case of most police departments, an apple goes bad (commits a crime) it gets put on suspension right next to the barrel while still being paid as the department 'investigates'. If it goes badly for the apple they get removed from the barrel, but then they either sue and get their job back and get put back into the barrel. Or move to next county and get put into their barrel.
- uoaei 4y ago
  I recommend reading up on ethylene. "Paper bag" and "ripening" can also be included in the query for more practical applications.
- lupire 4y ago
  Yes but the apples formed a union to prevent that.
  - 4y ago

rockemsockem 4y ago

I've taken to saying that instead there are a few good apples. Misty Carausu is definitely a good apple, but she seems like a major exception to the rule :/

shkkmo 4y ago

> never talk to the police. Ever. Under no circumstances. They are not your friend, they will not help you, they are looking for an easy way to wrap up the case. If the police are trying to talk to you then you are in their sights and they would much rather pin it all on you rather than do their actual jobs. Always ask for a lawyer and never think "Well if I just tell them X they will let me go". There are exceptions to this rule, and I think one is when your girlfriend has just been kidnapped. Sure, in this case the police did absolutely nothing to actually help save the girlfriend, but the chance they might help seems worth the risk of being deemed a suspect.

joshstrange 4y ago
I mean we have seen multiple cases (this one included) where the cops make you the primary suspect and will do anything they can to discredit you or catch you in a lie (even an unrelated lie that they use to "prove" you are guilty). I understand the desire to cooperate but with minor exceptions I'd still only talk to them through a lawyer or with one present. Cops are interested in really finding who is responsible, they are looking to close the file and you are right in front of them, a very tempting target.
- shkkmo 4y ago
  > I'd still only talk to them through a lawyer or with one present. Yes, I think hiring a lawyer would also increase your chances if they can push the police towards continuing to investigate all possibilities (such as interviewing witnesses or testing all the samples as they failed to do in this case) or make them less likely to lie to you (as they did in this case about the lie detector test results).
  - joshstrange 4y ago
    I think a lot of people think "only guilty people/criminals ask for lawyers" (thanks largely TV shows and movies that show cops that never make mistakes and only criminals not cooperating) and/or think "If they just hear my side they will understand and agree with me". In a really gross way I think that getting a lawyer might make you look less attractive to the cops (harder to pin it on you now) and force them to look elsewhere along with your other points of using your lawyer as way to push the investigation on their own. Remember, most cops are looking for the path of least resistance, not the truth.

maerF0x0 4y ago

> When faced with pretty damming evidence against their idea of this being a fraud the captain said: Police Unions often have an ethos of "we protect our own" -- essentially gang mentality. I like the idea of policing, think they can play a very positive role in society, but also think that the unions and that mentality are deeply undermining those positives coming true.

jjtheblunt 4y ago

> Once again we have irrefutable evidence that the police, as a whole, are incompetent and concerned only with making the "facts" fit their preconceived notions. I think your point is made stronger without the hyperbole.

kibwen 4y ago

Everyone on HN already knows that you don't ever trust HR departments, despite how friendly they may seem, because their job is to protect the company from employees. By analogy, the police are the HR department of the state.

fknorangesite 4y ago
An armed HR department.