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There's something deep inside the South Korean's psyche where social hierarchy is revered and absolute, yet it's also the same country where they could prosecut

There's something deep inside the South Korean's psyche where social hierarchy is revered and absolute, yet it's also the same country where they could prosecute people with power (see the example of President Park's impeachment in the article, and to a lesser extent Samsung heir Lee Jae-yong). Is the tide turning for real this time?

upupandup 4y ago
No. Barring some type of mass social destabilization (I provide a very real scenario at the end), it won't change. One concern I have with gapjil highlighted in the article is that what if somebody falsely accuses their bosses? There seems to be something like The People's Court happening. I do not doubt there is abusive relationships but I fear that this could quickly devolve into a cultural revolution of sorts. While I can't generalize every rich people in Korea, met nice people but also I've met those who openly deride/mock/ridicule people poorer (regionalism where if you don't live in a particular neighborhood in Seoul, you are automatically beneath them), which actually isn't limited to Korea but elitism can be found in any society. From anecdotal experience, what I found particularly obnoxious and tiring is this hyper obsession with status and how they are perceived which in neo-confucian cultures is the pinnacle driving force towards self-regulation and civilization in this region have become very stable and non-violent as a result relatively compared to other regions. There is this constant never ending competition of how they are being outdone materialistically which now replaces the traditional neo-confucian values. Being rich means your offsprings have a very good chance at achieving confucius approved career paths and access to elite education. Because the education system is not only corrupt, it has created a secondary market where students are discriminated on their financial capacity of their parents. Those without access to cram schools, the best tutors, are largely left on their own. The university exam will determine your place in society and I've looked at some of the questions say English exam. They were not about learning English for daily use but were designed to mislead, trick, and produce failures. A native speaker would not be able to do well on those exams because the questions make LSAT questions seem walk in teh park (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTwRSKVJLc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTwRSKVJLc). One upside is that Koreans speak far better English than their regional peers but has it translated into any economic benefit for the country? The economy is still a third of Japan's and its reliant on just a handful of family run conglomerates. Contrary to belief that South Korea is this ultra-nationalist collective, there's been a huge surge in individualism since the 90s, and each financial crisis have furthered the wealth gap and people's faith. There used to be lineups to melt personal gold heirloom to pay back IMF in '99 which all it did was bailing out the chaebol groups which caused the problem. It won't happen again this time. It's become significantly worse after the '98 and '08 financial crisis and there is another looming household credit bubble implosion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cbwbTqmCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cbwbTqmCw) which I can see destabilizing the country and the dwindling birth rate only compounds to the problem (think 1/3rd of Japan's economy with 2~3x the rate of population decline and extrapolate). They've been slowly dabbling with immigration but many end up leaving because the society is too complex and insular (jus sanguinis like Japan) One common theme throughout human history, and most recently Syria, whenever you have half the country's population living in a dense capital with growing number of young single NEET men, paired with household debt (often 2nd, 3rd tier like loan sharks), dwindling birth rate, it can quickly become volatile.
- pipeline_peak 4y ago
  > they are obsessed with how they are being outdone materialistically In terms of consumer electronics, they're still leading the way. Are you referring to China since they're emerging in this market along with automotive?
- orangepurple 4y ago
  To add to this, South Korea has the lowest total fertility rate on the planet https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?most_recent_value_desc=false https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?most_rec...
- RicoElectrico 4y ago
  The more I read about South Korea, the more I am convinced it's one of these countries where societal development did not follow economic development - along with e.g. United States. Lack of respect, empathy, trust, etc. can be expected in poor countries where each is on their own, labor is not as valuable, and some resort to unethical means to survive. But in countries which there's enough money floating around - absence of these values is a moral failure of the society.
- MafellUser 4y ago
  Your last paragraph also described China almost to a tee, I hope your prediction won't pan out.

upupandup 4y ago

No. Barring some type of mass social destabilization (I provide a very real scenario at the end), it won't change. One concern I have with gapjil highlighted in the article is that what if somebody falsely accuses their bosses? There seems to be something like The People's Court happening. I do not doubt there is abusive relationships but I fear that this could quickly devolve into a cultural revolution of sorts. While I can't generalize every rich people in Korea, met nice people but also I've met those who openly deride/mock/ridicule people poorer (regionalism where if you don't live in a particular neighborhood in Seoul, you are automatically beneath them), which actually isn't limited to Korea but elitism can be found in any society. From anecdotal experience, what I found particularly obnoxious and tiring is this hyper obsession with status and how they are perceived which in neo-confucian cultures is the pinnacle driving force towards self-regulation and civilization in this region have become very stable and non-violent as a result relatively compared to other regions. There is this constant never ending competition of how they are being outdone materialistically which now replaces the traditional neo-confucian values. Being rich means your offsprings have a very good chance at achieving confucius approved career paths and access to elite education. Because the education system is not only corrupt, it has created a secondary market where students are discriminated on their financial capacity of their parents. Those without access to cram schools, the best tutors, are largely left on their own. The university exam will determine your place in society and I've looked at some of the questions say English exam. They were not about learning English for daily use but were designed to mislead, trick, and produce failures. A native speaker would not be able to do well on those exams because the questions make LSAT questions seem walk in teh park (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTwRSKVJLc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTwRSKVJLc). One upside is that Koreans speak far better English than their regional peers but has it translated into any economic benefit for the country? The economy is still a third of Japan's and its reliant on just a handful of family run conglomerates. Contrary to belief that South Korea is this ultra-nationalist collective, there's been a huge surge in individualism since the 90s, and each financial crisis have furthered the wealth gap and people's faith. There used to be lineups to melt personal gold heirloom to pay back IMF in '99 which all it did was bailing out the chaebol groups which caused the problem. It won't happen again this time. It's become significantly worse after the '98 and '08 financial crisis and there is another looming household credit bubble implosion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cbwbTqmCw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8cbwbTqmCw) which I can see destabilizing the country and the dwindling birth rate only compounds to the problem (think 1/3rd of Japan's economy with 2~3x the rate of population decline and extrapolate). They've been slowly dabbling with immigration but many end up leaving because the society is too complex and insular (jus sanguinis like Japan) One common theme throughout human history, and most recently Syria, whenever you have half the country's population living in a dense capital with growing number of young single NEET men, paired with household debt (often 2nd, 3rd tier like loan sharks), dwindling birth rate, it can quickly become volatile.

pipeline_peak 4y ago
> they are obsessed with how they are being outdone materialistically In terms of consumer electronics, they're still leading the way. Are you referring to China since they're emerging in this market along with automotive?
orangepurple 4y ago
To add to this, South Korea has the lowest total fertility rate on the planet https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?most_recent_value_desc=false https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?most_rec...
RicoElectrico 4y ago
The more I read about South Korea, the more I am convinced it's one of these countries where societal development did not follow economic development - along with e.g. United States. Lack of respect, empathy, trust, etc. can be expected in poor countries where each is on their own, labor is not as valuable, and some resort to unethical means to survive. But in countries which there's enough money floating around - absence of these values is a moral failure of the society.
MafellUser 4y ago
Your last paragraph also described China almost to a tee, I hope your prediction won't pan out.