7 ms·

The ruling class doesn't mind people complaining. As long as it doesn't cost them financially or any political power then they'll cheer you on.

by yesbut 4y ago

ericmay 4y ago
Who is the ruling class?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dontlaugh 4y ago
  In capitalist countries (like liberal democracies), the ruling class are the large capitalists.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    Who is the ruling class in non-capitalist countries?
    - monkey_monkey 4y ago
      Oh come on, this isn't difficult. Who do you think the ruling class is in North Korea? Who do you think the ruling class was in the Soviet Union?
      - yesbut 4y ago
        He's trolling
    - qiskit 4y ago
      For any country, ask yourself whose interest the government/military/media/etc exists to serve. I'll give you a hint. It's never 'the people'. In capitalist countries, it's to serve the interest of capital. In monarchies, it's to serve the interest of the monarch. In communist countries, it's the serve the interest of the party. God knows what north korea is. A communist monarchy?
      - ericmay 4y ago
        What should I do with this information?
        qiskit 4y ago
        Use it as inspiration to upvote me of course.
        ericmay 4y ago
        Yea maybe. I just don't understand what I'm supposed to do with these "capitalism is the ruling class" drive-by comments. Like.. so what? I like my iPhone and getting bread from the grocery store. I like that in America as flawed as it is I can post funny pictures of the most powerful person we elect. Many people hold up capitalist countries like Sweden or Norway as examples of good governance, yet they also serve their "capitalist masters". What am I supposed to do here? Not vote? Demand that we dissolve the government?
        qiskit 4y ago
        I guess you can cry about apple removing the flag icon? I don't know what you want. I'm just answering a question you asked. You asked this: "Who is the ruling class in non-capitalist countries? " I answered this: "For any country, ask yourself whose interest the government/military/media/etc exists to serve. I'll give you a hint. It's never 'the people'. In capitalist countries, it's to serve the interest of capital. In monarchies, it's to serve the interest of the monarch. In communist countries, it's the serve the interest of the party. God knows what north korea is. A communist monarchy?" My response wasn't about capitalists or capitalism. My response was about the ruling class for any country. You are so agenda driven you only see what you want. You asked a question, I answered and you are crying about what other people wrote. Not what I wrote.
        klibertp 4y ago
        Why would you need to do anything? I mean, unless you're a hardliner anarchist, you accept that there always will be a class of people in power. Whether they buy the power with money, seize the power with violence, get it handed to them due to being born in a certain family matters little, in my opinion. The important part is setting up a system where the powerful cannot abuse their power to the detriment of society and where the lower classes have some basic rights guaranteed. Before you do set up a system like that, you unfortunately need to first educate the lower classes enough for them to realize that they want and need such a system in place. And that's the hard part, a main issue when talking about some Asian democracies, and a thing you're missing, I think.
  - klibertp 4y ago
    There's a local bent here, in that the large capitalists may rule everywhere, but the level of acceptance of that rule varies drastically between societies. In a society that was essentially feudal with a sanctioned slavery for thousands of years, that transitioned to a military junta dictatorship and only relatively recently started transitioning to liberal democracy, the ruled largely accepted having absolutely no recourse against the ruling. That there's a hotline now is actually a real, and substantial, progress.
    - yongjik 4y ago
      That's one way of looking at it but I'm not too sure about that. After all, the reason South Korea now enjoys a (mostly) functional democracy is that its people were not okay with the ruling class, and fought against the power for decades. Also, Korea went through a lot of social upheaval in the 20th century, which acted as a huge social mixer. The capitalist rulers of 2022 are not necessarily the descendants of old aristocrats of 1890s. Hyundai's founder was famously born to a dirt-poor farmer.
- achow 4y ago
  ..sprawling, family-run conglomerates. Known as chaebol, these long-time pillars of the nation’s “miracle economy” include the likes of LG, Hyundai, SK, Lotte and — largest of them all — Samsung. https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/republic-samsung https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/republic-samsung
- dominotw 4y ago
  upper middle class and homeowners who prevent more housing built for the poors.
  - muaytimbo 4y ago
    These "upper middle class" people pull the levers the government has put in place. If you want less regulation/zoning and more housing the problem is not "homeowners" it is the underlying structure that imbues them with veto power.
    - kodah 4y ago
      Well, it is a problem with homeowners because they're choosing to exercise a right that's patently unequitable. You are right that getting them to do the right thing is impossible, and that disenfranchising them is the only path forward.
      - muaytimbo 4y ago
        Patently unequitable is an opinion, I'm not sure you can fault someone for voting if you give them a vote. But why anyone other than the property owner has a say over the property in question's management is still a mystery to me.
  - L_Rahman 4y ago
    This is a problem in many places, but it is absolutely not a problem in Korea which adds housing units in every one of its metro areas at a rate that would make community approval boards in the United States pass out. Seoul has a population of eight million. In the five years between 2015 and 2020, it added two hundred thousand housing units, and that rate is only going up. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1290699/south-korea-number-of-homes-in-seoul/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1290699/south-korea-numb...

The ruling class doesn't mind people complaining. As long as it doesn't cost them financially or any political power then they'll cheer you on.

by yesbut 4y ago

The ruling class doesn't mind people complaining. As long as it doesn't cost them financially or any political power then they'll cheer you on.

ericmay 4y ago

Who is the ruling class?

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dontlaugh 4y ago
In capitalist countries (like liberal democracies), the ruling class are the large capitalists.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Who is the ruling class in non-capitalist countries?
  - monkey_monkey 4y ago
    Oh come on, this isn't difficult. Who do you think the ruling class is in North Korea? Who do you think the ruling class was in the Soviet Union?
    - yesbut 4y ago
      He's trolling
  - qiskit 4y ago
    For any country, ask yourself whose interest the government/military/media/etc exists to serve. I'll give you a hint. It's never 'the people'. In capitalist countries, it's to serve the interest of capital. In monarchies, it's to serve the interest of the monarch. In communist countries, it's the serve the interest of the party. God knows what north korea is. A communist monarchy?
    - ericmay 4y ago
      What should I do with this information?
      - qiskit 4y ago
        Use it as inspiration to upvote me of course.
        ericmay 4y ago
        Yea maybe. I just don't understand what I'm supposed to do with these "capitalism is the ruling class" drive-by comments. Like.. so what? I like my iPhone and getting bread from the grocery store. I like that in America as flawed as it is I can post funny pictures of the most powerful person we elect. Many people hold up capitalist countries like Sweden or Norway as examples of good governance, yet they also serve their "capitalist masters". What am I supposed to do here? Not vote? Demand that we dissolve the government?
        qiskit 4y ago
        I guess you can cry about apple removing the flag icon? I don't know what you want. I'm just answering a question you asked. You asked this: "Who is the ruling class in non-capitalist countries? " I answered this: "For any country, ask yourself whose interest the government/military/media/etc exists to serve. I'll give you a hint. It's never 'the people'. In capitalist countries, it's to serve the interest of capital. In monarchies, it's to serve the interest of the monarch. In communist countries, it's the serve the interest of the party. God knows what north korea is. A communist monarchy?" My response wasn't about capitalists or capitalism. My response was about the ruling class for any country. You are so agenda driven you only see what you want. You asked a question, I answered and you are crying about what other people wrote. Not what I wrote.
        klibertp 4y ago
        Why would you need to do anything? I mean, unless you're a hardliner anarchist, you accept that there always will be a class of people in power. Whether they buy the power with money, seize the power with violence, get it handed to them due to being born in a certain family matters little, in my opinion. The important part is setting up a system where the powerful cannot abuse their power to the detriment of society and where the lower classes have some basic rights guaranteed. Before you do set up a system like that, you unfortunately need to first educate the lower classes enough for them to realize that they want and need such a system in place. And that's the hard part, a main issue when talking about some Asian democracies, and a thing you're missing, I think.
- klibertp 4y ago
  There's a local bent here, in that the large capitalists may rule everywhere, but the level of acceptance of that rule varies drastically between societies. In a society that was essentially feudal with a sanctioned slavery for thousands of years, that transitioned to a military junta dictatorship and only relatively recently started transitioning to liberal democracy, the ruled largely accepted having absolutely no recourse against the ruling. That there's a hotline now is actually a real, and substantial, progress.
  - yongjik 4y ago
    That's one way of looking at it but I'm not too sure about that. After all, the reason South Korea now enjoys a (mostly) functional democracy is that its people were not okay with the ruling class, and fought against the power for decades. Also, Korea went through a lot of social upheaval in the 20th century, which acted as a huge social mixer. The capitalist rulers of 2022 are not necessarily the descendants of old aristocrats of 1890s. Hyundai's founder was famously born to a dirt-poor farmer.
achow 4y ago
..sprawling, family-run conglomerates. Known as chaebol, these long-time pillars of the nation’s “miracle economy” include the likes of LG, Hyundai, SK, Lotte and — largest of them all — Samsung. https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/republic-samsung https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/republic-samsung
dominotw 4y ago
upper middle class and homeowners who prevent more housing built for the poors.
- muaytimbo 4y ago
  These "upper middle class" people pull the levers the government has put in place. If you want less regulation/zoning and more housing the problem is not "homeowners" it is the underlying structure that imbues them with veto power.
  - kodah 4y ago
    Well, it is a problem with homeowners because they're choosing to exercise a right that's patently unequitable. You are right that getting them to do the right thing is impossible, and that disenfranchising them is the only path forward.
    - muaytimbo 4y ago
      Patently unequitable is an opinion, I'm not sure you can fault someone for voting if you give them a vote. But why anyone other than the property owner has a say over the property in question's management is still a mystery to me.
- L_Rahman 4y ago
  This is a problem in many places, but it is absolutely not a problem in Korea which adds housing units in every one of its metro areas at a rate that would make community approval boards in the United States pass out. Seoul has a population of eight million. In the five years between 2015 and 2020, it added two hundred thousand housing units, and that rate is only going up. https://www.statista.com/statistics/1290699/south-korea-number-of-homes-in-seoul/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/1290699/south-korea-numb...