7 ms·

The reason I think long and hard before signing up for new web services isn't even the cost 99% of the time, but the uncertainty in how difficult it is going to

The reason I think long and hard before signing up for new web services isn't even the cost 99% of the time, but the uncertainty in how difficult it is going to be to cancel should I decide I do not want to continue. I've had it UP TO HERE with services that allow me to subscribe with one click and then make me go through a half-day long ordeal of phone calls to outsourced customer service people (who earn bonuses based on convincing you not to leave the service) in order to cancel. Making it obvious that I can leave at any time just as easily as I joined is a huge greasing agent for getting me to actually put down money to try your service. It is a shame so few sites/services do this and most go with the short-sighted trap-em-in model which hurts the industry as a whole (since it makes people like me far less likely to use any non-essential services just to avoid the potential of a cancellation PITA).

AJ007 15y ago
Cancelling a recurring service is generally no more difficult than saying, "please cancel my subscription quick so I don't have to charge this back."
- georgemcbay 15y ago
  IME what you said is true, but only once you're talking to the manager of the manager of the person you originally waited on hold 25 minutes to talk to. And this is your second call because the first one got dropped randomly after 20 minutes on hold.
- Joakal 15y ago
  Companies will find ways to delay you as long possible: http://i.imgur.com/G0qlu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/G0qlu.jpg
  - joelhaasnoot 15y ago
    Except when forced to by law. Illinois doesn't allow Microsoft to do that and Illinois residents can cancel with one click.
- wbracken 15y ago
  Not exactly the case - documented the struggles for canceling Clear at: http://wp.me/p1CQDI-3i http://wp.me/p1CQDI-3i
itcmcgrath 15y ago
My thoughts exactly. $1-$20 a month might not be much, but if I sign-up to something and it takes me half a day of jumping through hoops such as making phone calls then it ends up costing me a lot more than that, not just based on time (and how much I think my time is worth), but also in raising my stress/frustrating levels. Let me know and can click 'cancel' anytime, no strings, no hassle and you'll probably get me on impulse purchase. Don't : Good luck getting my money.
goodweeds 15y ago
It's gotten better, but I used to call up my bank and ask for a new debit card once or twice per year rather than having to deal with the hell of canceling various services. It was fun to that the same companies who made cancel-ling impossible would call me up to tell me that billing had failed.
- ars 15y ago
  I use a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_payment_number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_payment_number for things like this. I can set a specific credit limit, or just stop the number at any time.
- chadgeidel 15y ago
  Do they ever send you to collections? I hear that's an even worse nightmare.
  - nfriedly 15y ago
    Bill collectors really aren't that bad if you know how to deal with them. I got sent to one once for a service I had canceled three times. The collector sent me a letter in the mail and then started calling every day at around 8 or 9 am. I sent all of the calls to voicemail and I sent a letter to the collector (via certified mail with delivery receipt) that said "RE: account number XYZ; this bill is erroneous, do not contact me again." I haven't heard from them since.
    - palish 15y ago
      Mine was the opposite experience. It wasn't really the same situation as yours, so maybe this is totally irrelevant. But here's my story, just incase. My health insurance denied my coverage for a Dr's appointment ("pre existing condition") a month or two after the appointment. I had moved by then, and apparently the mail didn't get forwarded or something. The dr's eventually turned me over to some California collection agency who then wrote letters to the same address, with the same result. They did leave an incoherent, mumbling voicemail once, which sounded like a telemarketer (hence I ignored it). To my eternal horror, my credit score dropped from 762 to 630 in June. Over 130 points, over an $80 bill. This means I went from "higher score than 86% of Americans" to "higher than 24%". It has utterly destroyed me. I have no credit anymore. I've been too scared to even apply for another credit card (I only have one), even though "you're supposed to every N years", for fear it would drop my score even further. I have a wife, and our credit prospects went from "could not be better" to "completely, utterly screwed. Good luck if your car dies. Also, good luck getting any kind of AT&T service, Internet service, etc etc when you move again." They showed no remorse at my situation. The lady assigned to my case even directly hung up on me when I expressed annoyance about her not attempting to contact me more... Thoroughly... Before she decided to ruin my family's financial life. I immediately called back, which rang and rang until reaching her voicemail. I contacted her manager, who said that the lady assigned to me was the final authority on my case, and had not acted inappropriately by hanging up. Nor did they care that the mail hadn't reached me. The worst part was, I had the money the whole time. I would have paid. Don't take bill collectors lightly. They'll break your family's financial knees over $80, as they did mine. (Edit, clarification: they will report your bill as "seriously past due 90 days / account in bad standing" or some such, which will destroy your score at all 3 of the credit bureaus; hence, the whole system will break your family's financial legs.)
rishi 15y ago
George - that is really incredible feedback. thank you for that comment.
WettowelReactor 15y ago
Although I am against most regulation I would strongly support a law that required unsubscribe/cancelations to be processed in the same manner as subscriptions. If I can subscribe/expand my service online I should be able to cancel online as well.
- Maxious 15y ago
  They have this in Illinois for online gaming subscriptions but of course when companies like Microsoft comply, they limit it to only that state: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=095-0765 http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name...
tomkarlo 15y ago
Ironic then that Netflix is one of the best companies at letting you change / pause / cancel your service in just seconds. Tivo, on the other hand, will make you cry before they let you cancel their service. Can't do it online, and it's a minimum of 20 minute phone call. I've had to do it twice over the years and it makes me really reluctant to turn on Tivo ever again.
ryandickherber 15y ago
I believe the problem is credit cards. They shouldn't be able to suck money out of you each month. You should have to send them money each month. If you don't want the service any more, don't send them money.
lsc 15y ago
this is very interesting to me; I thought that the ultimate in this would be to give you control over billing, so I don't do pull billing at all- I send you a bill and you pay it or you don't. (alternately, we can setup a paypal recurring payment for you, but you also can cancel that without telling me.) But, all I hear about this model from my customers is complaints. It's a pain in the ass for them to pay every month, or they hate paypal, can't they just give me a credit card, etc... It's possible that most people feel the way you do and those people just sign up and don't say anything... but I dono.

AJ007 15y ago

Cancelling a recurring service is generally no more difficult than saying, "please cancel my subscription quick so I don't have to charge this back."

georgemcbay 15y ago
IME what you said is true, but only once you're talking to the manager of the manager of the person you originally waited on hold 25 minutes to talk to. And this is your second call because the first one got dropped randomly after 20 minutes on hold.
Joakal 15y ago
Companies will find ways to delay you as long possible: http://i.imgur.com/G0qlu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/G0qlu.jpg
- joelhaasnoot 15y ago
  Except when forced to by law. Illinois doesn't allow Microsoft to do that and Illinois residents can cancel with one click.
wbracken 15y ago
Not exactly the case - documented the struggles for canceling Clear at: http://wp.me/p1CQDI-3i http://wp.me/p1CQDI-3i

itcmcgrath 15y ago

My thoughts exactly. $1-$20 a month might not be much, but if I sign-up to something and it takes me half a day of jumping through hoops such as making phone calls then it ends up costing me a lot more than that, not just based on time (and how much I think my time is worth), but also in raising my stress/frustrating levels. Let me know and can click 'cancel' anytime, no strings, no hassle and you'll probably get me on impulse purchase. Don't : Good luck getting my money.

goodweeds 15y ago

It's gotten better, but I used to call up my bank and ask for a new debit card once or twice per year rather than having to deal with the hell of canceling various services. It was fun to that the same companies who made cancel-ling impossible would call me up to tell me that billing had failed.

ars 15y ago
I use a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_payment_number http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controlled_payment_number for things like this. I can set a specific credit limit, or just stop the number at any time.
chadgeidel 15y ago
Do they ever send you to collections? I hear that's an even worse nightmare.
- nfriedly 15y ago
  Bill collectors really aren't that bad if you know how to deal with them. I got sent to one once for a service I had canceled three times. The collector sent me a letter in the mail and then started calling every day at around 8 or 9 am. I sent all of the calls to voicemail and I sent a letter to the collector (via certified mail with delivery receipt) that said "RE: account number XYZ; this bill is erroneous, do not contact me again." I haven't heard from them since.
  - palish 15y ago
    Mine was the opposite experience. It wasn't really the same situation as yours, so maybe this is totally irrelevant. But here's my story, just incase. My health insurance denied my coverage for a Dr's appointment ("pre existing condition") a month or two after the appointment. I had moved by then, and apparently the mail didn't get forwarded or something. The dr's eventually turned me over to some California collection agency who then wrote letters to the same address, with the same result. They did leave an incoherent, mumbling voicemail once, which sounded like a telemarketer (hence I ignored it). To my eternal horror, my credit score dropped from 762 to 630 in June. Over 130 points, over an $80 bill. This means I went from "higher score than 86% of Americans" to "higher than 24%". It has utterly destroyed me. I have no credit anymore. I've been too scared to even apply for another credit card (I only have one), even though "you're supposed to every N years", for fear it would drop my score even further. I have a wife, and our credit prospects went from "could not be better" to "completely, utterly screwed. Good luck if your car dies. Also, good luck getting any kind of AT&T service, Internet service, etc etc when you move again." They showed no remorse at my situation. The lady assigned to my case even directly hung up on me when I expressed annoyance about her not attempting to contact me more... Thoroughly... Before she decided to ruin my family's financial life. I immediately called back, which rang and rang until reaching her voicemail. I contacted her manager, who said that the lady assigned to me was the final authority on my case, and had not acted inappropriately by hanging up. Nor did they care that the mail hadn't reached me. The worst part was, I had the money the whole time. I would have paid. Don't take bill collectors lightly. They'll break your family's financial knees over $80, as they did mine. (Edit, clarification: they will report your bill as "seriously past due 90 days / account in bad standing" or some such, which will destroy your score at all 3 of the credit bureaus; hence, the whole system will break your family's financial legs.)

rishi 15y ago

George - that is really incredible feedback. thank you for that comment.

WettowelReactor 15y ago

Although I am against most regulation I would strongly support a law that required unsubscribe/cancelations to be processed in the same manner as subscriptions. If I can subscribe/expand my service online I should be able to cancel online as well.

Maxious 15y ago
They have this in Illinois for online gaming subscriptions but of course when companies like Microsoft comply, they limit it to only that state: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name=095-0765 http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publicacts/fulltext.asp?Name...

tomkarlo 15y ago

Ironic then that Netflix is one of the best companies at letting you change / pause / cancel your service in just seconds. Tivo, on the other hand, will make you cry before they let you cancel their service. Can't do it online, and it's a minimum of 20 minute phone call. I've had to do it twice over the years and it makes me really reluctant to turn on Tivo ever again.

ryandickherber 15y ago

I believe the problem is credit cards. They shouldn't be able to suck money out of you each month. You should have to send them money each month. If you don't want the service any more, don't send them money.

lsc 15y ago

this is very interesting to me; I thought that the ultimate in this would be to give you control over billing, so I don't do pull billing at all- I send you a bill and you pay it or you don't. (alternately, we can setup a paypal recurring payment for you, but you also can cancel that without telling me.) But, all I hear about this model from my customers is complaints. It's a pain in the ass for them to pay every month, or they hate paypal, can't they just give me a credit card, etc... It's possible that most people feel the way you do and those people just sign up and don't say anything... but I dono.