9 ms·

What did you switch to?

by visviva 4y ago

rodolphoarruda 4y ago
Product manager.
- MiddleEndian 4y ago
  As someone who has been in the industry long enough that I should know, but I always just call people PMs and never delved past that... what is the distinction between being a Project Manager and Product Manager?
  - LeSaucy 4y ago
    I have found that product managers are more motivated towards sales and marketing of a product/solution, project managers are more logistical and keeping people informed.
  - eatonphil 4y ago
    In companies that do product development, project managers are responsible for schedules/timelines/reporting. Product managers are responsible for what is the problem, what is to build. It's a massive difference. Good product managers are experts of the market, have vision for the company and product. Project managers focus more on bookkeeping.
  - ghaff 4y ago
    It varies depending on company, type of product, etc. However, in my experience with mostly computer systems hardware, project managers were more internally focused and concerned with minutiae of schedules, resources, dependencies, etc. Whereas product managers interfaced with sales, customers, and--depending or the organization related groups like product marketing, marketing communications, etc. But PM/PMM roles can vary a fair bit.
  - rodolphoarruda 4y ago
    The most relevant distinction between the two from the company's perspective, IMHO, is that the product manager is often seen as potential revenue generating agent, whereas the project manager is pure operational cost. One would have to articulate a lot to make a point about a project manager being directly associated with sales/revenue etc. -- the top line. "Oh yeah, the project manager can increase customer satisfaction and then contribute to upselling, especially in companies focused on farming and not much on hunting customers!" -- I agree, but it's rare now.
  - tremon 4y ago
    It's pretty much in the difference between a project and a product: by most definitions, a project is a tool for change in an organization, and has a limited lifetime and a limited scope. A product, on the other hand, is a tool for performing some business function (either internally for staff or externally through sales), and its scope can be whatever the business needs. Typically, a project manager has authority over resource allocation and resource planning, but must defer to the stakeholders for everything else (most importantly, for actual design/implementation decisions). A product manager has authority over the complete lifecycle of his product, including design, implementation and resource allocation.
    - digisign 4y ago
      Finally there's Program Manager... a 'program' being a continuously running project. Think, a government program for...
  - andi999 4y ago
    I talked to a 'pure' project manager for a big company, basically this guy went to a 2 hour project meeting then to his secretary got a new folder and into the next 2 hour project meeting. Basically ticking boxes related to gantt charts. This is the far end of project manager, a fully political position with not too much expertise in the specific project required.
  - corrral 4y ago
    Project manager: - Reads Jira (or whatever) and moves things around (yes, they may also add things sometimes, but I'm drawing a general distinction). - Gantt charts. - Tracks project status, communicates it upward. - May also do some communicating expectations downward. - Translates blunt assessments of the project's progress into managerese. - May have some responsibility for keeping development processes going, especially ones that involve lots of communication (think: Agile shit, or just project status meetings generally) - Helps unblock process-related shit. Product manager: - Writes to Jira a lot. - Does market research, or works closely with those who do. - Guides the direction of the product (e.g. which feature do we tackle next, do we pivot). - Works closely with key stakeholders (clients, product owners, domain experts) to determine that direction. - Sells that direction to management and such. - May have some significant sway on final decisions for e.g. design. - May do quite a bit of business-model analysis.
    - Unbeliever69 4y ago
      My your account, a project manager is a plumber. Nice analogy.
- esel2k 4y ago
  Same here. Was project manager before now product manager and would never go back. As project manager I was only looking after budget and timelines and creating gantt charts for management. As a product manager I read market analysis, run customer research, talk to partner companies, run workshops, create a vision and discuss various potential solution with dev teams and others. I think the role of project manager is dying for a good reason. Developers can organize themselves and it is more important to have that leading person motivating the dev teams with interesting problems while respecting them -> my approach. The rest is shared between product mamager, senior developers maybe some shared delivery lead resources or the engineering manager.

What did you switch to?

rodolphoarruda 4y ago

Product manager.

MiddleEndian 4y ago
As someone who has been in the industry long enough that I should know, but I always just call people PMs and never delved past that... what is the distinction between being a Project Manager and Product Manager?
- LeSaucy 4y ago
  I have found that product managers are more motivated towards sales and marketing of a product/solution, project managers are more logistical and keeping people informed.
- eatonphil 4y ago
  In companies that do product development, project managers are responsible for schedules/timelines/reporting. Product managers are responsible for what is the problem, what is to build. It's a massive difference. Good product managers are experts of the market, have vision for the company and product. Project managers focus more on bookkeeping.
- ghaff 4y ago
  It varies depending on company, type of product, etc. However, in my experience with mostly computer systems hardware, project managers were more internally focused and concerned with minutiae of schedules, resources, dependencies, etc. Whereas product managers interfaced with sales, customers, and--depending or the organization related groups like product marketing, marketing communications, etc. But PM/PMM roles can vary a fair bit.
- rodolphoarruda 4y ago
  The most relevant distinction between the two from the company's perspective, IMHO, is that the product manager is often seen as potential revenue generating agent, whereas the project manager is pure operational cost. One would have to articulate a lot to make a point about a project manager being directly associated with sales/revenue etc. -- the top line. "Oh yeah, the project manager can increase customer satisfaction and then contribute to upselling, especially in companies focused on farming and not much on hunting customers!" -- I agree, but it's rare now.
- tremon 4y ago
  It's pretty much in the difference between a project and a product: by most definitions, a project is a tool for change in an organization, and has a limited lifetime and a limited scope. A product, on the other hand, is a tool for performing some business function (either internally for staff or externally through sales), and its scope can be whatever the business needs. Typically, a project manager has authority over resource allocation and resource planning, but must defer to the stakeholders for everything else (most importantly, for actual design/implementation decisions). A product manager has authority over the complete lifecycle of his product, including design, implementation and resource allocation.
  - digisign 4y ago
    Finally there's Program Manager... a 'program' being a continuously running project. Think, a government program for...
- andi999 4y ago
  I talked to a 'pure' project manager for a big company, basically this guy went to a 2 hour project meeting then to his secretary got a new folder and into the next 2 hour project meeting. Basically ticking boxes related to gantt charts. This is the far end of project manager, a fully political position with not too much expertise in the specific project required.
- corrral 4y ago
  Project manager: - Reads Jira (or whatever) and moves things around (yes, they may also add things sometimes, but I'm drawing a general distinction). - Gantt charts. - Tracks project status, communicates it upward. - May also do some communicating expectations downward. - Translates blunt assessments of the project's progress into managerese. - May have some responsibility for keeping development processes going, especially ones that involve lots of communication (think: Agile shit, or just project status meetings generally) - Helps unblock process-related shit. Product manager: - Writes to Jira a lot. - Does market research, or works closely with those who do. - Guides the direction of the product (e.g. which feature do we tackle next, do we pivot). - Works closely with key stakeholders (clients, product owners, domain experts) to determine that direction. - Sells that direction to management and such. - May have some significant sway on final decisions for e.g. design. - May do quite a bit of business-model analysis.
  - Unbeliever69 4y ago
    My your account, a project manager is a plumber. Nice analogy.
esel2k 4y ago
Same here. Was project manager before now product manager and would never go back. As project manager I was only looking after budget and timelines and creating gantt charts for management. As a product manager I read market analysis, run customer research, talk to partner companies, run workshops, create a vision and discuss various potential solution with dev teams and others. I think the role of project manager is dying for a good reason. Developers can organize themselves and it is more important to have that leading person motivating the dev teams with interesting problems while respecting them -> my approach. The rest is shared between product mamager, senior developers maybe some shared delivery lead resources or the engineering manager.